SUV's and Support our Troops ribbons

SUV's don't burn gas, people burn gas. (Ok already, I just had to say it) reaches for gun.

That's funny...

Perhaps the connection between SUV's and Iraq is tenious - but I find the yellow ribbon a shallow form of support. I think the posters point is that nothing has been sacrificed for this war - we for the most part in America - are riding this out with a disinterested eye on the news.

Remember Vietnam and the political unrest amongst the college students? My students have no clue what is going on - whatg the body count is - whether Saddam was a mad man or a maddam. They simply could give two shits - as long as it doesn't effect them and thier latest ripped download of 50 cent - they could give a flaming fart.

We drive our vehicles at greater than 2 bucks a gallon because the plight of the poor (and dear God could I hear one more time that they volunteered for it) soldier for the most part doesn't concern us. 10 miles to the gallon 2 miles to the gallon - if we think it gives us prestige - we will buy it - a milliong miles wide and an inch deep.

TTF

All this agony and now my deep gratitude to thethinkfactory for stating it with naked clarity. It is breathtaking the number of young people who believe we should be kicking ass in Iraq, but don't know why except Saddam was a bad man. One thing they do know for sure, it is certainly not necessary to disturb their bright futures when we have all those reservists and national guard folks who can put their lives on hold. How did the situation turn out on Veteran's day while networks quaked in their boots regarding the film "Saving Private Ryan". Well we just won't show it, it's too real and soldiers used vulgarities. God forbid we should ever have the unpleasant experience of the sitting thru a film that describes war.

Not now, glitterbag. Our messages may have crossed in the mail, but your answer to Letty resolved it for me.

I am not a suv fan for several reasons*, but I can see why some people have them in certain situations, and I don't think all suvs are equal offenders re gasoline consumption.
I agree with those who said some other vehicles guzzle too.

Some people who own suvs may really support the soldiers, and it is presumptious to assume they are hypocrites.

I agree the soldiers need genuine support, besides the ribbon thing, but the ribbons are generally well meant, and don't preclude their support of the soldiers in other ways.

And some people may be all for conquest for oil, and drive the suvs that guzzle, with no qualms. I am in disagreement with those people.


* I cannot see past them in parking lots, making backing out even more dangerous than usual.
They have a tendency to crush other cars when accidents occur.
They are often gas guzzlers, and I agree we need to change our consumption patterns.
Some of them tend to roll over, thus being unsafe in that way for the people in them as well as those outside.
They change the ratio of numbers of big to little cars, with larger and larger cars being felt needed by others just to deal with them.
I think they are often an affectation in urban situations, though I am quite sympathetic to someone like Farmerman who really needs his vehicle for field work.

Hmmm, in LA, just before I left, they instituted giant recycling containers for each house and they are all dumped at a place where they have a conveyor belt and the sorting is done from that. I read at the time that it was very efficient.

General,
Check the thread again, you have attributed a quote to me that was actually voiced by someone else. I will take responsiblity for myself, but not the opinions voiced by others. And like I said before, thanks for staying on target, but make a tiny effort to pay attention.

bm

?????

Glitterbag -- bm -- contrary to what you might think means Book Mark.

Apparently Morrison wants to listen & hear if new commentary is made, but not express an opinion just yet. You'll see a2kers write that, or a "." or say "bookmarking" 'cause that's all it takes to make a thread become part of the "Our Posts" list and then it is easier to check on.

You may be off-topic, but who doesn't enjoy patting their own pet cow?

However, General T --there would still be the same number of trucks moving the same amount of material whether it is recycled or not. Those trucks would be moving "virgin" resources if they weren't moving recyclables, right? Those people would be going to work somewhere, wouldn't they? It's not fair to only show some the costs of the recycling without adding in what those alternative costs would be.

Dumping large amounts of garbage in landfills became a problem when landfills started filling up and few others were being allowed to be built. They take hundreds of acres and nobody wants to live near them because they stink, there are run-off issues, pollution issues and there is a rat/bear/vermin problem. Some folks think that you can just truck that garbage to another "empty" state, but there aren't so many empty states anymore and most empty-state folks aren't very happy to store your garbage.

In my county in Puget Sound, all of our non-recyclable garbage is trucked to a place in eastern Washington that still allows us, at high cost, to bury our garbage. Approximately half of my garbage is recycled within the county. Our newspapers use a large percentage of recycled stock. The waste paper, metal, plastic and glass are also recycled. There is a huge business recycling all sorts of building materials including concrete and all metal. No job site around here would even consider not recycling -- it's just way too expensive to dump. Garbage collection has become a much bigger industry than just picking up garbage and burying it.

Thank P, I remember seeing bookmark in Abuzz, was too slow to recognize bm. I will tuck that away.

Why would one feel the necessity to advertise one's supposed nobility? How do we know the individual owner of the SUV actually supports the troops? The essence of altruism is anonymity. One gives without the main concern of personal recognition. The source of this altruism is irrelevant, unless other motives present.

But are not drivers of SUVs just as unpatriotic as those that speak out against U.S. participation in foreign wars? But this is America and freedom of choice reigns.

However, it is legitimate to ask why an individual would buy and use a 5, 000 lb vehicle with a power train combo that is lucky to get 12- 18 mpg, designed to go off road, with the ability to have 4 driving wheels to further decrease gas mileage just to drive to work or get the kids to soccer practice. These are the same people who refuse to go to work when we get a couple of inches of snow. But the same owner's snow phobia keeping them off paved roads is more desirable than the actions of those who like to demonstrate that their SUVs are better able to accelerate and go fast under snowy/wet conditions (forget muddy, for these vehicles rarely are driven off road). But the operators seem to forget they have no advantage over an ordinary two wheel driven sedan when it comes time to actually stop the vehicle. Indeed, given a set speed the heavier SUV is at a distinct disadvantage when a panic stop is necessitated. After all, both vehicles have 4 wheel brakes.

The larger complaints of gas guzzling and higher center of gravity for these vehicles can and is being addressed. The former problem can be solved with sensors, computers, and variable valve lifters to shut down or reactivate half the engine (or more) when necessary for obvious fuel saving/power demand situations. The latter is a little more advanced and expensive but can be accomplished (Mercedes Benz has developed this). I am all for this since this allows all Americans the best of both worlds. The demand for this technology on SUVs will allow economies of scale that will spread to those of us who chose smaller vehicles and make all vehicles safer and more economical.

But two problems remain with SUVs: They still are hard to see around and their in ordinate ability to attract those who insist on displaying, or giving the impression of, their superiority or nobility. The first is easy to overcome: just buy your own SUV! The second, of course, has little to do with the vehicle class itself and can only be either avoided or tolerated.

Am I just jealous of those who own these large inefficient and, presently, unsafe SUVs? (their threat to safety lies in the operator's ignorance of its nature not its design) Please… don't be absurd! My dream vehicle is the Ford F-350 (or something like that) Heavy Duty 6.0 liter (Yes! 6 liters) Diesel 6 wheel "pick-up". This vehicle has all the amenities of a luxury sedan, actually seats 6 + comfortably plus has a regular 4' x 8' cargo box (a sheet of plywood or paneling fits flat or one can mount a "Fifth wheel" for towing). Its towing capacity is about 4000 lbs and with its large fuel tank(s) its real world cruising range is over 500 miles. With a good male bladder that means only 1 "pause that refreshes" a day. The second necessary stop to top off the fuel tank allows for a secondary rest stop if needed. To increase the range one only need to cut back on one's java intake.

JM

I will argue that 4WD will stop better on slick surfaces than the conventional Detroit setup with rear wheel drive and automatic transmission. Touch the brakes and the front wheels on those babies will lock up and skid while the rear wheels are still driving. Directional control becomes the stuff of dreams.

I view this in the same vien of massive SUV's and Jesus Fish. I get cut off daily by a SUV in Houston with a whole school of Jesus fish on the back (apperantly every family member needs thier own fish in Texas).

So I tend to get the - You just got screwed by a lover of the Lord - message. In the same way that a yellow ribbon solves nothing - jesus fish on the back of your car does not mean you live your life as a Christian.

I see the off road power towing packages of these behemoths in a state that you have to drive 40 miles to get to the local grocery store and wonder why som much torque and towing capacity is needed.

These are vehicles mostly driven by soccer moms that have only seen 'off road' because they ran over the neibors flower bed while she was taling on the phone, handing the kids thier latest DVD, and eating chicken McNuggets at the same time she was 'driving'. (This is not a gendered thing BTW - just took one example). So we can spare the need for four wheel drive in a city that hasn't seen show since 1984 (I checked).

These are penis mobiles ment to be showy, luxery, and least of all efficient.

TTF

I don't consider expressing an opinion about an ill-founded war an unpatriotic act. I believe General Dwight D. Eisenhower expressed my feelings well when he said:

"If the United Nations once admits that international disputes can be settled by using force, then we will have destroyed the foundation of the organization and our best hope of establishing a world order."


As for the F350 --- nice truck... if you need it.

First off, as an active duty military member and a husband myself, I have to say that seeing those little yellow ribbons on the back of some people's cars doesn't exactly make me weep with gratitude, but it's nice to know that someone else out there appreciates what we do.
I've read back earlier in the thread that there was a couple vets themselves in here, but I may or may not be speaking for them when I say that what anyone in the military does is a large sacrifice. It's not the easiest job in the world because you may have someone shooting at you, but then there are civilian workers (police, firemen, etc.) that put their life on the line too. You all have spoken on the level of patriotism... but I ask you this: how many days out of the year (besides Armed Forces Day, Veteran's Day, and September 11th) do you actually sit down and consider the servicemembers, federal employee's, and their families who not only put their very lives on the line, but who put their family's lives through hell doing just that? My wife hates it every time I go out to sea, because my life depends on every single other sailor on my submarine to get me home alive. Off-topic, but I don't trust half those guys with my pocket lint, let alone my life. She goes through a greater torment just because she has no idea where I am underwater, and there's no way that I can contact her and let her know I'm OK until we pull up to the pier.
You mostly don't realize the amount that is sacrificed every single hour of the day. Half the time when I am in uniform on my way home, most people just end up giving me that sideways glare, just cuz sailors in my area have that reputation of getting drunk and obnoxious. It doesn't take much, but do something to show your appreciation to all those guys out there, and don't be like those stuck-up prudes walking around in Wal-Mart. If you think the yellow ribbon is tacky, then look up the Red Cross and make a donation, or something original. Let us know that we're not out here fighting with nobody at home who cares besides the family that we leave behind.

Oh yeah, and my wife drives an SUV... and she doesn't need a yellow ribbon on the back.

The Odious Wasp--

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