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The anti-gay marriage movement IS homophobic

 
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:15 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
littlek wrote:
We are not trying to legislate against your civil rights.


Neither is Momma


Momma has said that she would abstain from voting on the issue of gay marriage. But, the religious right has been pushing the issue rather stiffly. To my mind, gay marriage is a civil rights issue.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:17 pm
aktorist wrote:
Simply put: Discrimination:

It is either right, or it is wrong.



You should really drop this simple minded claim because it only serves to make you look foolish. EVERYONE discriminates several dozen times a day. When you invite 4 people over to your house for dinner you've discriminated against the rest of the world's population. When you invite a friend to a movie you've done the same thing. In fact, the simple act of saying that someone is your friend is an act of discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic fact of life and it isn't a simple case of always being either right or wrong. There are thousands of perfectly valid reasons to discriminate along with an equeal number of reasons where it isn't.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:18 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Ok, I think Finn knows what I meant by that but let me explain it to everyone else.

I have the right to vote. You have the right to vote. You have the right to base your decision for your vote on whatever the heck you want to base it on. Well, so do I. You telling me I am wrong in how I would vote is the same thing as telling me I don't have a right to vote that way.

Why you vote for what you vote for is your business, just as what I vote for and why is my business. This is just a discussion. But, if you tell me I am wrong for what I would vote you are not giving me the same right that you have.


funny. if that arguement stood during the suffregette movement, you mightn't even have the option to vote right now......
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:19 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong.

The Bible says shellfish and pork are an abominations just like it says homosexuality is an abomination. Does you think eating shellfish and pork is wrong too?

Leviticus:

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination."

"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."

"But you shall not eat any of the following that only chew the cud or only have hoofs: the camel, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you; the rock badger, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you; the hare, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you; and the pig, which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:20 pm
Different meanings, littlek, same root but completely different meanings.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:21 pm
oopsies..... suffrage!
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:22 pm
Quote:
You should really drop this simple minded claim because it only serves to make you look foolish. EVERYONE discriminates several dozen times a day. When you invite 4 people over to your house for dinner you've discriminated against the rest of the world's population. When you invite a friend to a movie you've done the same thing. In fact, the simple act of saying that someone is your friend is an act of discrimination.

Discrimination is a basic fact of life and it isn't a simple case of always being either right or wrong. There are thousands of perfectly valid reasons to discriminate along with an equeal number of reasons where it isn't.


You fully misunderstood.

Discrimination against race, sex, sexual orientation, et cetera.

THOSE are bad.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:22 pm
Oh, are we quoting the bible? Great! Okay.....

Quote:
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:23 pm
Different meanings, fishin', same root but completely different meanings.

[Sorry littlek, made a slight slip up there and the gopher won't let me edit]
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:24 pm
Quote:
I believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong.


Your negligence of what's right and wrong one of the result of this.
If you truly believe that sexual orientation discrimination is wrong, you would support gay marriage. You're not supporting homosexuality because of it. You're supporting equality and you are going against discrimination. Again, because of various legal benefits of marriage.

* Hospital visitation. Married couples have the automatic right to visit each other in the hospital and make medical decisions. Same-sex couples can be denied the right to visit a sick or injured loved one in the hospital.
* Social Security benefits. Married people receive Social Security payments upon the death of a spouse. Despite paying payroll taxes, gay and lesbian workers receive no Social Security survivor benefits - resulting in an average annual income loss of $5,528 upon the death of a partner.
* Health insurance. Many public and private employers provide medical coverage to the spouses of their employees, but most employers do not provide coverage to the life partners of gay and lesbian employees. Gay employees who do receive health coverage for their partners must pay federal income taxes on the value of the insurance.
* Estate taxes. A married person automatically inherits all the property of his or her deceased spouse without paying estate taxes. A gay or lesbian taxpayer is forced to pay estate taxes on property inherited from a deceased partner.
* Retirement savings. While a married person can roll a deceased spouse's 401(k) funds into an IRA without paying taxes, a gay or lesbian American who inherits a 401(k) can end up paying up to 70 percent of it in taxes and penalties.
* Family leave. Married workers are legally entitled to unpaid leave from their jobs to care for an ill spouse. Gay and lesbian workers are not entitled to family leave to care for their partners.
* Immigration rights. Bi-national families are commonly broken up or forced to leave the country to stay together. The reason: U.S. immigration law does not permit American citizens to petition for their same-sex partners to immigrate.
* Nursing homes. Married couples have a legal right to live together in nursing homes. Because they are not legal spouses, elderly gay or lesbian couples do not have the right to spend their last days living together in nursing homes.
* Home protection. Laws protect married seniors from being forced to sell their homes to pay high nursing home bills; gay and lesbian seniors have no such protection.
* Pensions. After the death of a worker, most pension plans pay survivor benefits only to a legal spouse of the participant. Gay and lesbian partners are excluded from such pension benefits.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:26 pm
Chumly, Chymly, Chumly,

You just posted what it says in the Bible! OMG! Does this mean you are swayed? Laughing
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:26 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Ok, I think Finn knows what I meant by that but let me explain it to everyone else.

I have the right to vote. You have the right to vote. You have the right to base your decision for your vote on whatever the heck you want to base it on. Well, so do I. You telling me I am wrong in how I would vote is the same thing as telling me I don't have a right to vote that way.

Why you vote for what you vote for is your business, just as what I vote for and why is my business. This is just a discussion. But, if you tell me I am wrong for what I would vote you are not giving me the same right that you have.


No. Nobody is contesting your right to vote.


What is being contested is your right to infringe upon the rights of other adult citizens to marry.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:27 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Actually, it is about all of our rights, isn't it? You are advocating for the rights of homosexuals at the expense of my rights. Is that right?


No, it is not right.

Several people have asked you to explain how advocating for rights for homosexuals comes at the expense of your rights. You have not answered that question.

People who support full civil rights for homosexuals, at the very least in this thread, have not proposed that anyone else give anything up in order for homosexuals to have the same civil rights as others enjoy.

Your contention is without foundation.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:28 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Chumly, Chymly, Chumly,

You just posted what it says in the Bible! OMG! Does this mean you are swayed? Laughing
Yes!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:28 pm
Newsflash folks! Unless you can tell me where in the Constitution of the United States it says I cannot consider my religious beliefs when I vote you are infringing on my right to vote the way I want to vote!

It is absolutely no different than you voting on a tax break law for the poor that would discriminate against the rich or vice versa.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:29 pm
Setanta wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Actually, it is about all of our rights, isn't it? You are advocating for the rights of homosexuals at the expense of my rights. Is that right?


No, it is not right.

Several people have asked you to explain how advocating for rights for homosexuals comes at the expense of your rights. You have not answered that question.

People who support full civil rights for homosexuals, at the very least in this thread, have not proposed that anyone else give anything up in order for homosexuals to have the same civil rights as others enjoy.

Your contention is without foundation.


Not only that, it is baseless.





We ARE asking her to deal with her prejudices not being acted upon.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:29 pm
Well Praise the Lord! Chumly has been swayed! woo hoo! Seriously, Chumly. I think you rock. :wink:
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:32 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Newsflash folks! Unless you can tell me where in the Constitution of the United States it says I cannot consider my religious beliefs when I vote you are infringing on my right to vote the way I want to vote!

It is absolutely no different than you voting on a tax break law for the poor that would discriminate against the rich or vice versa.


<sigh> I think the concern is that all folk (including homosexuals) MA, have the same rights. It is not just about you & your rights!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:36 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Newsflash folks! Unless you can tell me where in the Constitution of the United States it says I cannot consider my religious beliefs when I vote you are infringing on my right to vote the way I want to vote!
Quote:


No one said you cannot vote the way you wish to do. You are simply being informed that voting against homosexual marriage is voting against the basic civil rights of a significant proportion of the population based upon your religious bigotry.

Get over it, it's not going to go away . . .


Quote:
It is absolutely no different than you voting on a tax break law for the poor that would discriminate against the rich or vice versa.


You just eat up that right-wing propaganda horseshit, don't ya? You know, if we didn't have to pay for the Shrub's dirty little war, we could easily give the poor the tax cuts he gave instead to his rich buddies.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 09:36 pm
Well I am a musician, and eating pork or shellfish or homosexuals is an abomination. Mom, what do you think about a transgendered man marrying a woman? Does god like it?
0 Replies
 
 

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