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The anti-gay marriage movement IS homophobic

 
 
flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:44 pm
What a strange position I find myself in. I agree with all of Aktorist's stated goals, but most of Momma Angel's logic (at least on these few posts).
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:44 pm
Quote:
we (the US of A) is a nation of law, not theocracy, civil rights/human rights for all is prime. Homophobics are bigots in the same manner as the KKK.


Thank you. I will also add that "Bible is fiction" has a much greater chance of being true than "Bible is nonfiction."

Like a roulette wheel with an infinate amount of numbers. The bible is like number 1927350917325. What are it's chances on landing on that number?

And also, religion, again does not justify bigotry. One could believe that one can kill because of their faith. If the system worked like that people can do whatever they believe in, then people will be killing already. But thankfully, it doesn't. Because faith has no justification for immorality. And immoral is bigotry.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 02:07 pm
aktorist Wrote:

Quote:
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So, homosexuals are being used to promote someone's agenda? Kind of like the Christian right using the Bible to promote their own agenda.


First, you would need evidence that the bible is right.

Oh? So prove to me that every book written by man is right. Prove to me that none of these books were not written to promote someone's own agenda.

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Oh? So who decides what is right or wrong? Mankind? Hmmmm. Ok, account for the differences in opinions. Morality has prescedence? And just where does that morality come from?

atkorist,

So one is immoral because they believe something is wrong because God says it is wrong? Huh?


Common sense.

Where does common sense come from?

Either bigotry is right or it is wrong.

Who decides what bigotry is? God or the person that wants something their way and someone disagrees with them and they are; therefore, a bigot?

Take your pick.

The are wrong because of bigotry. And religion is no excuse for that.

Again, I never said religion was an excuse for anything. Why do you keep bringing that up? There is right and there is wrong. Period.




aktorist wrote:
Quote:
we (the US of A) is a nation of law, not theocracy, civil rights/human rights for all is prime. Homophobics are bigots in the same manner as the KKK.


Thank you. I will also add that "Bible is fiction" has a much greater chance of being true than "Bible is nonfiction."

Because?

Like a roulette wheel with an infinate amount of numbers. The bible is like number 1927350917325. What are it's chances on landing on that number?

Haven't a clue. Do you?

And also, religion, again does not justify bigotry. One could believe that one can kill because of their faith. If the system worked like that people can do whatever they believe in, then people will be killing already. But thankfully, it doesn't. Because faith has no justification for immorality. And immoral is bigotry.

Hmmm. Where does it leave the murderers who do not have religious beliefs? They think killing is ok. Doesn't make it so, does it? I don't know any Christians that think it's ok to go out and kill someone. Do you?

Again, where does morality come from? You? Me? Who makes up what is moral and what is not moral? What about those that are not religious at all but still think homosexuality is wrong?


0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 04:24 pm
Quote:
Oh? So prove to me that every book written by man is right. Prove to me that none of these books were not written to promote someone's own agenda.


My mistake. Give me EVIDENCE that the bible is correct. You can't just assume that everything in print here is correct.

Quote:
So one is immoral because they believe something is wrong because God says it is wrong? Huh?


Yep. If you believe that being black is wrong because god says so, then that's wrong.

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Where does common sense come from?


By you being human.

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Who decides what bigotry is? God or the person that wants something their way and someone disagrees with them and they are; therefore, a bigot?


Bigotry: A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.

Bigotry: Prejudice carried to the extreme of overt hatred, often carried to the point of violence.

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Again, I never said religion was an excuse for anything. Why do you keep bringing that up? There is right and there is wrong. Period.


Then decide whether it is right or wrong. You continue to avoid this.

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Because?


I thought you were smarter than thought. Anything in the realm of the supernatural has vanishingly small chances.

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Haven't a clue. Do you?


About the same chances that there is some kind of invisible ghost in front of you.

Quote:
Hmmm. Where does it leave the murderers who do not have religious beliefs? They think killing is ok. Doesn't make it so, does it? I don't know any Christians that think it's ok to go out and kill someone. Do you?

Again, where does morality come from? You? Me? Who makes up what is moral and what is not moral? What about those that are not religious at all but still think homosexuality is wrong?


Those who think homosexuality is wrong is wrong. And they have nothing to justify it. Because it is not wrong. Morality comes from all of us. The common of us know what is right and wrong.

And this is morality: discrimination is wrong. Do you agree? And I think it be smart too, that there is nothing wrong with it. It harms nobody. And it harms people to think that it is wrong.

Why do you choose to believe something discriminatory? Is it right to believe in something that harms others who have done nothing?

Do you discriminate? Do you think that discrimination is right?

At this point, you do. You think discrimination is right. You harm others who have done nothing. You may dispute whether this is right or wrong, but as it stands, you say that your belief is that you should harm others.

Say it: "I am a bigot. I am homophobic. I am intolerant of gays and is discriminatory so."

Is it true? Is it not true? It is one or the other. And choose one. Take your pick.

Be smart.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:04 pm
Those who think homosexuality is wrong ARE wrong? Shall we now call you God? You have decided who is right and who is wrong?

The Bible does not promote bigotry. The Bible does not promote discrimination. Just because you do not agree with what the Bible says does not make you right and the Bible wrong.

You keep saying they have done nothing. In your opinion, they have done nothing. In God's opinion they have. God is the ultimate authority. You are not. I am not.
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:07 pm
Quote:
Those who think homosexuality is wrong ARE wrong? Shall we now call you God? You have decided who is right and who is wrong?

The Bible does not promote bigotry. The Bible does not promote discrimination. Just because you do not agree with what the Bible says does not make you right and the Bible wrong.

You keep saying they have done nothing. In your opinion, they have done nothing. In God's opinion they have. God is the ultimate authority. You are not. I am not.


Yes call me God if you want, but currently, you have yet to say that you are either prejudiced or you are not prejudiced.

And like it or not, belief that homosexuality is wrong is prejudiced.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:20 pm
Sorry. That's just not true. Just because a certain portion of the population believes that homosexuality is ok, does not mean it is ok.

Are you therefore being prejudiced against the ones that do not believe it is ok? Hmmmmm. Are you being prejudiced because YOU have decided that anyone that thinks homosexuality is wrong is wrong?

Say it ain't so...... :wink:
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:24 pm
dyslexia wrote:
we (the US of A) is a nation of law, not theocracy, civil rights/human rights for all is prime. Homophobics are bigots in the same manner as the KKK.
Brokeback mountain
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:27 pm
Haven't seen it.
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aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:45 pm
I am not prejudiced against any simple prejudice. Just the prejudice against those who have done no infliction, I have prejudice against. And this one is outside that. Therefore, I am not contradictory.

Quote:
Sorry. That's just not true. Just because a certain portion of the population believes that homosexuality is ok, does not mean it is ok.

Are you therefore being prejudiced against the ones that do not believe it is ok? Hmmmmm. Are you being prejudiced because YOU have decided that anyone that thinks homosexuality is wrong is wrong?


I never said that it is okay ad populum. I said that if it is not wrong, then it is by default okay. And homosexuals have done nothing. Are you to say that just because they are homosexuals, then they are less human?

Yes, I am prejudiced against those who have done infliction. And the few prejudices that have done infliction against those who haven't done any infliction are wrong. Simple as that. The word is justice.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:49 pm
aktorist,

Well, so who decided then that homosexuality is ok? Again, if God says it is wrong then they have done something wrong.

No, they are not less than human! They are just as human as anyone else and I treat them the same as I treat anyone.

So, what have I inflicted on anyone just because I believe homosexuality is wrong? And you might want to keep this in mind, everyone does wrong. Everyone. No one is perfect. So, am I prejudice against everyone in the world then because they have done something wrong? I think not.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:52 pm
Homosexuality is ok simply because it does no harm to anyone. Period.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:53 pm
If God says it is wrong then it does harm to God because sin causes Him heartache.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:55 pm
littlek wrote:
Homosexuality is ok simply because it does no harm to anyone. Period.


Exclamation point!
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 05:56 pm
Momma, only some of the people believe in your god. what about the rest of us? You can say that it is wrong, because your god believes it's so. But, why should the law of the land say it's wrong when the law represents everyone - even those of us who don't believe in your god. The law is there to represent all of us.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 06:02 pm
littlek,

Please do not get me wrong. I am not condemning anyone here. This is an issue that is between each individual and the God of their understanding or no god for that matter. I am only telling you what I believe.

I wish everyone would try to understand that just because I think something is wrong in God's eyes it does not automatically make me hate them. littlek, none of us are perfect. We lie, we steal, we cheat, etc. That's not the point. Being a homosexual is not the point. The point is I have my beliefs and others have theirs. We do not need to label each other because of it.

I don't get to vote on this issue, littlek. The extent of my discussing it is with my husband, two female friends and occasionally a few others. To be quite honest with you, if I had the chance to vote on it, I would probably just not vote. But, I still think it is wrong in God's eyes.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 06:03 pm
You ARE concemning - you are saying homosexuality is wrong!
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Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 06:09 pm
Homosexuality does not harm god. Some homophobic a$shole said that and they put it in the bible. It's the same guy that said if you eat shellfish you go to hell. Leviticus right?

Who the hell is Leviticus? I bet he was gay.
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 06:09 pm
Quote:
Well, so who decided then that homosexuality is ok? Again, if God says it is wrong then they have done something wrong.


Again, your religion has no exemption from morality. That particular article of belief is immoral.

Quote:
So, what have I inflicted on anyone just because I believe homosexuality is wrong? And you might want to keep this in mind, everyone does wrong. Everyone. No one is perfect. So, am I prejudice against everyone in the world then because they have done something wrong? I think not.


Keep in mind that those who hold a similar view used it to justify that gays can't marry, can't have children, and lynching.

Sure, no one is perfect. But we can get close. And we can eliminate those which we know are bad already.

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If God says it is wrong then it does harm to God because sin causes Him heartache.


Again, that's religion, and religion has no exemption from morality.

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I am only telling you what I believe.


And what you currently believe is immoral. You may say that Hitler believed what he did was right (and I also agree), but does that mean that we should tolerate Hitler and his beliefs?

Your belief is immoral because it has consequences. Your thoughts are important. I'm not saying that thought crime should be illegal -- just that you should watch what you think. Your prejudice is wrong.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 06:24 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
littlek,

Please do not get me wrong. I am not condemning anyone here. This is an issue that is between each individual and the God of their understanding or no god for that matter. I am only telling you what I believe.



I agree with the teachings of Jesus Christ and that it is wrong to judge and so is intolerance. Maybe you have some kind of other direct link but according to Christian tenets, love and understanding, not hate and non-accpetance are proscribed,
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