23
   

The anti-gay marriage movement IS homophobic

 
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:10 pm
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:
echi wrote:
twin_peaks_nikki wrote:


Checkmate.


Huh?


It means you lost.


I thought I had reached a conclusion perhaps similar to your's; did you lose, too?
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:15 pm
Yeah but Baltham and I knew you were wrong when you posted that nonsense/ At least you admitted you were wrong. So I assuming you approve of same sex marriage now?
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:18 pm
I do not approve of same-sex marriage, but I do think it should be legal.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:24 pm
echi wrote:
It is precisely because the origins are so shrouded that my request for evidence to the contrary was valid.

blatham...
Thanks for the advice. I do know to evaluate the legitimacy of information sources.

I was unable to find evidence to support my claim. I did find some evidence that marriage, in fact, came about for political and economic reasons and that love and religion were in no way involved.


echi

Sorry if that one sentence sounded pedantic. It's been a commonplace here to have folks zoom right for citations they've picked up from activist religious groups where the scholarship falls junior to the moral certainty and church authority.

This isn't a historical subject which I've had time to dig into to any depth. I do have some sense of the variety of notions and arrangements concerning marriage that exist in different cultures and different time periods - and there is a lot of variety. I doubt there is even one single factor common throughout other than some sense of bond/obligation.

But Americans or Canadians will tend to work out arrangements based on their own cultural and legal histories regardless of what is going on in Micronesia.

My position on the matter falls out entirely from my civil rights notions - that the state has no valid role in determining who might be allowed to marry and who not (given the standard provisos of maturity and absense of coersion). It is fine, it seems to me, if sub-groups in the community such as a church have a policy wherebye THEY won't add their special imprimateur of 'sacred' or some such to a union, but that's quite different than extending such a value more broadly to include folks outside that faith.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:28 pm
echi Wrote:

Quote:
I do not approve of same-sex marriage, but I do think it should be legal.


Echi, could you elaborate on this? I do not understand.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 03:35 pm
echi wrote:
I do not approve of same-sex marriage, but I do think it should be legal.


Yes. I think that's the sort of place we have to end up, if we wish to maintain a society where we are each free to choose our own lives and values. I don't approve of the amount of cruel violence in much media but I don't think I can make it illegal without doing damage to liberty greater than what I'd gain from a suppressive law.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 04:09 pm
twin_peaks_nikki...

echi wrote:
I do not approve of same-sex marriage, but I do think it should be legal.

What I meant is I do not approve of homosexual behavior, but I believe that any two people should have the right to marry each other. I reached this conclusion after learning more about the history of marriage and its earliest known reasons for being, which had little or nothing to do with love or religion. It does appear that the institution of marriage was created for mainly political and economic reasons. What now seems to me to violate the First Amendment is any law concerning marriage that, for religious reasons, defends one belief and condemns another. But I am easy to change my mind about a subject if I find reason to do so. This is a complex subject; there is a lot of contradicting information (most of it bad). Although my new opinion may agree with your's, I am not so naive as to consider the case closed.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 04:15 pm
Case open is a fine place to be in one's thinking.

Nice talking with you, echi.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 04:20 pm
I also apologize for any harshness anyone may have noticed. I am sensitive to it, myself, when it is aimed at me because it is so unpleasant and difficult for me to feel and control my tendencies to retaliate.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 06:35 pm
What the hell. If we can't retaliate a bit now and again, we'll just get frustrated and angry and go out to the park with a baseball bat and hit homosexuals across the ankles.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 11:32 pm
Good point.
0 Replies
 
twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2005 01:56 am
blatham wrote:
What the hell. If we can't retaliate a bit now and again, we'll just get frustrated and angry and go out to the park with a baseball bat and hit homosexuals across the ankles.


Or Mounties!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2005 04:38 am
Mounties, like many politicians and other folks who tend to demonstrate an acute fondness for the sort of elevated social status that sits right next door to(or smack in the middle of) the authoritarian mindset, will often be far more comfortable getting whacked across the ankles with a big stick than they will be if they get, say, a pie in the face or some other "blow" that demeans rather than injures.

Official Iconoclast Rule # One...ALWAYS give the authoritarian what he does not want, never what he wants.
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:13 pm
Gay marriage is necessary for those who oppose discrimination. If one opposes gay marriage, one supports discrimination.

Gay marriage is either GOOD or BAD.

Take your pick.

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Center&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=16761

Also, religion and tradition don't make things right or wrong. If you think that women having jobs is wrong just because of religion/tradition, then that is not so. Morality has prescedence. And morality says that it is not wrong. And morality says that discrimination is wrong.

As for religion, marriage has nothing to do with religion.

Or, otherwise, just restore marriage back to religion and replace it with "civil unions" for all. Win for all, right?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:24 pm
Wrong.http://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000028.gif
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:30 pm
Why?
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:35 pm
I'll change my wording.
Win for the just. Lose for the immoral. Lose for the ones who use religion and tradition to justify their bigotry. Bigotry is always wrong. So I would guess that it is a loss for the immoral.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:37 pm
Quote:
Gay marriage is necessary for those who oppose discrimination?


So, homosexuals are being used to promote someone's agenda? Kind of like the Christian right using the Bible to promote their own agenda. :wink:

Quote:
Also, religion and tradition don't make things right or wrong. If you think that women having jobs is wrong just because of religion/tradition, then that is not so. Morality has prescedence. And morality says that it is not wrong. And morality says that discrimination is wrong.


Oh? So who decides what is right or wrong? Mankind? Hmmmm. Ok, account for the differences in opinions. Morality has prescedence? And just where does that morality come from?

aktorist,

So one is immoral because they believe something is wrong because God says it is wrong? Huh? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
aktorist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:41 pm
Quote:
So, homosexuals are being used to promote someone's agenda? Kind of like the Christian right using the Bible to promote their own agenda.


First, you would need evidence that the bible is right.

Quote:
Oh? So who decides what is right or wrong? Mankind? Hmmmm. Ok, account for the differences in opinions. Morality has prescedence? And just where does that morality come from?

atkorist,

So one is immoral because they believe something is wrong because God says it is wrong? Huh?


Common sense.

Either bigotry is right or it is wrong.

Take your pick.

The are wrong because of bigotry. And religion is no excuse for that.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2006 01:41 pm
we (the US of A) is a nation of law, not theocracy, civil rights/human rights for all is prime. Homophobics are bigots in the same manner as the KKK.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

New York New York! - Discussion by jcboy
Prop 8? - Discussion by majikal
Gay Marriage - Discussion by blatham
Gay Marriage -- An Old Post Revisited - Discussion by pavarasra
Who doesn't back gay marriage? - Question by The Pentacle Queen
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/02/2024 at 03:44:01