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The anti-gay marriage movement IS homophobic

 
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:47 pm
Ticomaya wrote:


My use of the example of "possession of marijuana" was to illustrate that arguments can be made on both sides as to the issue of the "fairness" of the law.


Your analogy is misplaced. We are not discussing laws that prohibit all citizens from possessing an illegal substance; we are discussing laws that bestow special rights upon certain classes of persons (generally, heterosexuals) based on the gender of their intended spouses.

As the laws in most states currently stand, only persons who intend to marry persons of the opposite sex are allowed to obtain a marriage license.

It would be more appropriate, for the sake of comparison, if the law with respect to marijuana possession provided the following:

Only those persons who intend to marry persons of the opposite sex are allowed to possess marijuana.

Wouldn't this type of law be a denial of equal protection under the law?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:49 pm
Quote:
Ban on gay foster parents sparks battle

By John Moritz

Star-Telegram Austin Bureau


AUSTIN -- Forces on both sides of the gay rights issue vowed Wednesday to wage a fierce battle over whether the state should reject potential foster parents on the basis of their sexual orientation.

And both sides insisted that they were acting in the best interest of the children.

"The truth is that a parent's sexual orientation has no negative consequence on the children that are raised in those homes," said Randall Ellis, head of the Lesbian/Gay Rights Lobby of Texas. "Those children are not adversely affected."

But Cathie Adams, president of the conservative Texas Eagle Forum, said foster children should not be placed in the care of gay and bi-sexual foster parents.

"We should not be exposing these children to an immoral, unhealthy lifestyle," Adams said. "These children in foster care have already been traumatized enough."

http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/11445485.htm

And here's the TEF... http://texaseagle.org/about.html
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 07:54 pm
Hmmm . . . yes . . . James I was homosexual, and his son, Charles I, was a stiff-necked unyielding Anglican zealot, whose stiff neck was eventually severed by the headsmen for the offense of defying Parliament. Probably a result of his exposure to the immoral, unhealthy lifestyle of his father.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:00 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:


My use of the example of "possession of marijuana" was to illustrate that arguments can be made on both sides as to the issue of the "fairness" of the law.


Your analogy is misplaced. We are not discussing laws that prohibit all citizens from possessing an illegal substance; we are discussing laws that bestow special rights upon certain classes of persons (generally, heterosexuals) based on the gender of their intended spouses.

As the laws in most states currently stand, only persons who intend to marry persons of the opposite sex are allowed to obtain a marriage license.

It would be more appropriate, for the sake of comparison, if the law with respect to marijuana possession provided the following:

Only those persons who intend to marry persons of the opposite sex are allowed to possess marijuana.

Wouldn't this type of law be a denial of equal protection under the law?


Or say marijuana was only allowed for those persons with cancer to possess marijuana. Wouldn't that discriminate against those without cancer?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:00 pm
set

On the plus side of all this...I'm not sure what opportunities you have to interact with young adults. Through family and friends, I've a lot of such opportunities over the last couple of decades. The old cultural taboos we see being played out here on this thread are rarely a part of their perception of the world. It's most encouraging.
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:12 pm
Yep, Blatham, there is a new day dawning. A hundred years from now, people will look back at this absurd bigotry against gays as we now think of those who supported slavery, Jim Crow and apartheid.
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Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:20 pm
Blatham! My favorite Mountie since Sargent Preston of the Yukon. Well said.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:21 pm
I wanna know what the white mark on the front of Mr. Mountie's pants is . . . is your fly open ? ! ? ! ?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:28 pm
All of this reminds me . . .

Guy walks into a bar and orders a double whiskey, straight up, and just the instant the bartender pours it, knocks it straight back, and gasps out: "Nother one."

So the bartender pours that, and still gasping, the guy throws it down and gestures for another, which he also knocks straight back.

The bartended asks him: "Say buddy, what's up with all of the double whiskeys?"

"First blow job . . . " he gasps out.

"Well say, congratulations, let me buy you one."

"No, that's o.k., that last one got the taste out of my mouth."
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:31 pm
It's illumination.
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SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:33 pm
Setanta wrote:
Hmmm . . . yes . . . James I was homosexual


I thought you were telling James that you were a homosexual.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 08:35 pm
As you can see, thinking is a dangerous and humiliating experience . . . perhaps you should give it up . . .
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 11:13 pm
Deb. I have done some thinking since our last exchange and I finally figured what you were trying to say.

Since the definition of homophobia is also discrimination as well as aversion all reasons would then fall under homophobia because there is not a logical reason to deny a person the right to marry another adult (of sound mind) of the same sexual gender.

The reason I brought all that personal stuff was just illustrate that most people I know who voted in our area to ban SSM; did so for religious reasons. It was a hot issue during the elections so the issue got talked about in the super markets and beauty parlors or living rooms. I don't think too many of them were afraid that somehow their marriage was going to be affected or that they were going to "turn gay."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 06:07 am
I'm not a racist and I bloody resent the suggestion that I am. I just think blacks ought to marry blacks and white ought to marry whites.

There is not a single anti-semitic bone in my body. I think they are very good writers and they have a special talent for money. I understand why they wish to have their own golf courses just as we do.
0 Replies
 
Omar de Fati
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 06:25 am
SCoates wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Hmmm . . . yes . . . James I was homosexual


I thought you were telling James that you were a homosexual.


He was just giving another archaic reason to despise religionists who are alive today. Similiar to how some blacks hate white americans because of slavery several centuiries ago.

Soon, a new day will come when homosexuals don't manufacture transgressions against them. No one will say, 'religionists make me sick to my stomach, I despise them & have contempt for them, & they are next to murderious' just to secure a "special" consideration by the law.

In the meantime, we'll have to deal with this insanity by voting against SSM until they realize noone else but them is fooled by their concoction.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 07:26 am
Quote:
He was just giving another archaic reason to despise religionists who are alive today. Similiar to how some blacks hate white americans because of slavery several centuiries ago.


Interracial marriage was illegal in California up until the 1970s.
"Whites only" doorway signs were still to be found in the 60s, or maybe later. If I recall correctly, a black was lynched in Alabama in 1952 or near to that date. So you might want to update your mental files re archaic reasons for white society to feel appropriately like shitheels.

Quote:
Soon, a new day will come when homosexuals don't manufacture transgressions against them. No one will say, 'religionists make me sick to my stomach, I despise them & have contempt for them, & they are next to murderious' just to secure a "special" consideration by the law.


I move that heterosexuals be allowed only the status of civil union too.

Quote:
In the meantime, we'll have to deal with this insanity by voting against SSM until they realize noone else but them is fooled by their concoction.


I'm afraid that you are on the wrong side of the trajectory here. Well, I guess I'm not 'afraid'. More correctly, I'm quite pleased you are.
0 Replies
 
Omar de Fati
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 08:01 am
blatham wrote:
Quote:
He was just giving another archaic reason to despise religionists who are alive today. Similiar to how some blacks hate white americans because of slavery several centuiries ago.


Interracial marriage was illegal in California up until the 1970s.
"Whites only" doorway signs were still to be found in the 60s, or maybe later. If I recall correctly, a black was lynched in Alabama in 1952 or near to that date. So you might want to update your mental files re archaic reasons for white society to feel appropriately like shitheels.


A black was recently lynched in Mississippi. Race & homosexuality aren't comparable. Maybe you want to update YOUR mental discernment.

Further, the person I was talking about, has only used archaic reasons for depising religionists. Religionists aren't responsible for the irrelevant events you mentioned. Maybe you need to update your mental discernment.

Quote:
Quote:
Soon, a new day will come when homosexuals don't manufacture transgressions against them. No one will say, 'religionists make me sick to my stomach, I despise them & have contempt for them, & they are next to murderious' just to secure a "special" consideration by the law.


I move that heterosexuals be allowed only the status of civil union too.


No you don't. You're saying that here. If it were to come to a vote, you'd be online describing heterosexuals as homophobes too.

Quote:

Quote:
In the meantime, we'll have to deal with this insanity by voting against SSM until they realize noone else but them is fooled by their concoction.


I'm afraid that you are on the wrong side of the trajectory here. Well, I guess I'm not 'afraid'. More correctly, I'm quite pleased you are.


Nonsense. Depising religionists for archaic reasons, having contempt for them, being made sick to the stomach, thinking "I"ve smoked pot all my adult life" isn't advocating pot use, is all insane.

Hey, you're only hurting your cause with this madness. I would just as soon vote for SSM, if the reasoning behind weren't insanity & hatred.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 08:34 am
you said
Quote:
Similiar to how some blacks hate white americans because of slavery several centuiries ago.

I said
Quote:
Interracial marriage was illegal in California up until the 1970s.
"Whites only" doorway signs were still to be found in the 60s, or maybe later. If I recall correctly, a black was lynched in Alabama in 1952 or near to that date.

In other words, racism hardly ended centuries ago thus blacks had good cause for a lot of reasons to think white culture rather boneheaded in our wonderful modern era.

But is there some problem you see with criticism of religious ideas?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 08:36 am
Was racism a result of religious teachings?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 08:46 am
McGentrix wrote:
Was racism a result of religious teachings?

I don't know for sure, but the way the Supreme Court described the history of the Loving v. Virginia case, certainly suggests as much.

In 'Loving v. Virginia', the Supreme Court wrote:
In June 1958, two residents of Virginia, Mildred Jeter, a Negro woman, and Richard Loving, a white man, were married in the District of Columbia pursuant to its laws. Shortly after their marriage, the Lovings returned to Virginia and established their marital abode in Caroline County. At the October Term, 1958, of the Circuit Court [388 U.S. 1, 3] of Caroline County, a grand jury issued an indictment charging the Lovings with violating Virginia's ban on interracial marriages. On January 6, 1959, the Lovings pleaded guilty to the charge and were sentenced to one year in jail; however, the trial judge suspended the sentence for a period of 25 years on the condition that the Lovings leave the State and not return to Virginia together for 25 years. He stated in an opinion that:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."

Source (Emphasis added)
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