The anti-gay marriage movement IS homophobic

you said

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Similiar to how some blacks hate white americans because of slavery several centuiries ago.

I said

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Interracial marriage was illegal in California up until the 1970s.
"Whites only" doorway signs were still to be found in the 60s, or maybe later. If I recall correctly, a black was lynched in Alabama in 1952 or near to that date.

In other words, racism hardly ended centuries ago thus blacks had good cause for a lot of reasons to think white culture rather boneheaded in our wonderful modern era.

But is there some problem you see with criticism of religious ideas?

The more appropriate question...

Was racism forwarded or supported in the US by faith communities? The answer is yes. Not all faith communities, of course. In certain very important instances, faith communities aided in the dismantling of racist values and ideas and policies.

On the issue of homosexuality, there are faith communities who consider that it is not immoral nor sinful and that members of the homosexual community are due all the elements of equality which those of not in that community enjoy.

But to ignore the role of faith communities in the opposition to homosexuality and equality (including equality in the realm of marriage) is simply to ignore what is the main oppositional force in play here.

Can religious teachings foster anti-homosexual values and community policies? Obviously.

Religionists aren't hunting down homosexuals.

And this marriage question isn't about homosexuals, it's about same-sex marriage.

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And this marriage question isn't about homosexuals, it's about same-sex marriage.

So it would be fine with you if all couples, no matter what the gender mix, were to be legislated to fall under the 'civil union' heading?

Especially since race & homosexuality aren't comparable.

I agree with McG. EVERYONE should have a civil union in the eyes of the law; it would solve this problem neatly.

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Especially since race & homosexuality aren't comparable.

Yes they are.

Cycloptichorn

Don't you agree bisexuals should be able to marry a person from each sex too at the same time?

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Religionists aren't hunting down homosexuals.

Define 'hunting down'. Or are adhoc posses and murder the only evidence of bigotry?

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And this marriage question isn't about homosexuals, it's about same-sex marriage.

So it would be fine with you if all couples, no matter what the gender mix, were to be legislated to fall under the 'civil union' heading?

Omar de Fati wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Omar de Fati wrote:

Especially since race & homosexuality aren't comparable.

Yes they are.

Cycloptichorn

Please explain how race & h[o]mosexuality are comparable in the specific context I was discussing when I objected to the comparison.

They are comprable, don't be dense.

It is undeniable that many religious teachings--Christian are the ones I am most familiar with--absolutely taught racism in the past. Separation of the races was considered not only practical but godly. Blacks should be separate from whites. Greeks should be separate from nonGreeks. Jews should marry Jews, etc. It was an abomination to God for black to marry white, etc. Some of the more obscure fundamentalist groups still teach it that way, but the vast majority have accepted and evolved into more enlightened views.

My mother tried valiantly not to be racist and honestly believed that she was not. But her cultural conditioning would surface now and then when she would make a remark like: "Have you ever noticed that the negros are becoming more light skinned as they become better educated?" It simply didn't compute with her that this was a racist statement. At the same time she would not tolerate any mistreatment of black people and at one point developed admiration for a black boss (Don Perkins, former NFL player, and at one time director of the New Mexico State Tourist Dept.)

She didn't believe she was racist and, in fact, was not maliciously racist though racist she was.

Subsequent generations, including those in the Church, have been culturally conditioned differently and for the vast majority of us, those old imbedded racist notions are but a memory or at the least barely present. I think we can't say we are completely free of racism as long as we worry about offending a person of another race or if we defer to a person of another race for their specific point of view, or affirmative action is favored, etc. I think racism won't be eliminated until we view the color of skin and ethnicity as of no more consequence or importance than hair or eye color. It will take cooperation from all parties to accomplish that.

So what will it take for sexual preference to be of no more consequence or importance than hair or eye color? It will take cooperation from all parties to accomplish that.

Please explain how race & hmosexuality are comparable in the specific context I was discussing whenI objected to the comparison.

Omar de Fati wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Omar de Fati wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Omar de Fati wrote:

Especially since race & homosexuality aren't comparable.

Yes they are.

Cycloptichorn

Please explain how race & h[o]mosexuality are comparable in the specific context I was discussing when I objected to the comparison.

They are comprable, don't be dense.

No explanation eh? Thanks for nothing.

Thanks for nothing? I don't owe you anything...

The truth is that there ARE similarities between the two, and you KNOW there are, you just want someone to argue with about it.
Cycloptichorn

The Microsoft Corporation, at the forefront of corporate gay rights for decades, is coming under fire from gay rights groups, politicians and its own employees for withdrawing its support for a state bill that would have barred discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation....

Microsoft officials denied any connection between their decision not to endorse the bill and the church's opposition, although they acknowledged meeting twice with the church minister, Ken Hutcherson.

Dr. Hutcherson, pastor of the Antioch Bible Church, who has organized several rallies opposing same-sex marriage here and in Washington, D.C., said he threatened in those meetings to organize a national boycott of Microsoft products.

After that, "they backed off," the pastor said Thursday in a telephone interview. "I told them I was going to give them something to be afraid of Christians about," he said.

As the Senate battle over judicial confirmations became increasingly entwined with religious themes, officials of several major Protestant denominations on Thursday accused the Senate Republican leader, Bill Frist, of violating the principles of his own Presbyterian church and urged him to drop out of a Sunday telecast that depicts Democrats as "against people of faith."...

Religious groups, including the National Council of Churches and the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, plan to conduct a conference call with journalists on Friday to criticize Senator Frist's participation in the telecast. The program is sponsored by Christian conservative organizations that want to build support for Dr. Frist's filibuster proposal.

Among those scheduled to speak in the conference call is the Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick, a top official of the Presbyterian Church U.S.A., in which Dr. Frist is an active member.

"One of the hallmarks of our denomination is that we are an ecumenical church," Mr. Kirkpatrick said in an interview on Thursday. He also said, "Elected officials should not be portraying public policies as being for or against people of faith."

Olympia, Wash. -- A state Senate bill that would have banned discrimination against gays and lesbians in housing, insurance and jobs was rejected Thursday by a single vote.

The legislation appeared dead earlier this month when it was sent to a committee. But the Senate on Thursday allowed the measure to come up for a vote, and it was narrowly rejected 25-24.


Sen. Jim Hargrove, a Democrat, said he opposed the measure for religious reasons.

"I believe adultery is wrong; I believe sex outside marriage is wrong; I believe homosexuality is wrong," he said. "I cannot give government protection to this behavior."