Why is Nobody Honest Here?!?

Obviously everaugust has never read any of my poetry.

neither have I ? Care to share ?

Not a bad idea sozobe. I have absolutely no problem with constructive criticism, just with the way everaugust went about stating it. To call the poetry on A2K "terrible", and suggest that the writers should pick up a book by a couple of his favourite authors, giving the assumption that none of us read, without even posting a single piece of his/her own, is really just arrogant. I offer constructive criticism when I can, stuh always offers constructive criticism, but I don't recall either of us insinuating that someone's writing was "terrible", ever.

If I may be so bold....when giving constructive criticism, you have to give the author's words paramount importance, even if it's not your style. That doesn't mean not suggesting structural changes, spelling and grammar changes, or even reccomending word changes. However, it is hubris to try to rewrite someone else's work, based on your particular stylistic tastes, or to dismiss a piece completely as 'crap.'

Poetry critique is not a Catch-22. Your wife asking "Do I look fat in this" is.

I'm all for starting the day with a little (or a lot) of loin stirring...great for my overall disposition....kudos to Letty for this great idea....

Hee! Hee! Now I have prosaic stuff to do,
Like pay some bills
Fix breakfast
Look at my cars( )
Awaken sleeping dogs
etc.etc.etc.

and Panz, I'll do the emoto bit for 'ya:

:wink:

Cav, everaugust didn't call all the poetry terrible. He/she said:



I know what he/she means (when are we going to get rid of gender-specific pronouns? they're such a hassle), and think the "some" is operative. I've definitely seen some baaaaaad poetry. And I agree that there have to be SOME subjective standards -- you cannot say that absolutely anything committed to paper or computer screen is by definition worthy. No, some of it's just plain baaaaaad.

If you guys want to know what I mean, I'll go find something, copy and paste here, and offer the commentary that comes to mind but I don't usually post.

I like Sozobe idea of "critiques appreciated" included in a creative writing post. It gives us permission to offer constructive criticism and allows us to be more comfortable in offering advice on how they may improve it.

Okay, semantics. Well, the web is full of "awful, uninspired and banal" poetry. That's hardly a surprise. Generally people have the courtesy to not point it out. I am not saying that "anything commited to paper or computer screen is by definition worthy" in terms of it being good poetry (see my comments on the Ginsberg piece). However, should one choose to comment on something that is truly bad, a little sensitivity is in order, IMO. If I read something truly awful, I don't generally comment at all. Sometimes I see something that isn't all that good, but with polishing, could be. I'll comment there. Even terrible poets have a lot invested in their work, emotionally. Telling them their writing is "awful, uninspired and banal" is just as unhelpful as showering a piece with empty praise. Neither are inspiring to the writer.

Oh, and as I stated, I think your 'critique wanted' idea is a good one.

Well, but I think what everaugust was saying (and again, yes, happy medium) is not to tell them that their writing is "awful, uninspired and banal" but NOT to say "that was magic!". You seem to agree with that.

OK, say I see the following poem (making one up now, too worried about insulting someone):



I wouldn't say "OH MY GOD THAT SUCKS!!"

I'd say something like:



You get the idea.

Okay I will open myself up to criticism

I've been writing a song...work in progress

"The Headin' To Armegeddon Rag"

I read the news the other day
It said that bush had won
I told my wife it's looking like
The end times have begun....
He'll bring peace to the Middle East
and I'll sleep well at night
Knowing that my leader takes...
His orders straight from Jesus Christ

(here come the chorus)

We're heading' for Armeggedon
with our Bush and our Dick in our hand
But Lordy by gosh
Won't you give your Bush a wash
it's stinking up the promised land
If you think that your bush is nasty
just check out that dirty old dick
so everyone get in line
for a big dick from behind
and four more years of a little prick.....


When I get to the gates of heaven
George and Jesus will be meeting me there
And they'll be looking real cute
In their matching pinstripe suits
And look!! Jesus finally cut his hair
They'll walk me down the golden pathway
and oh what a beautiful site
No Liberals no N iggas no Ayrabs or Jews
hallelujah!!!! Jerry had it right

repeat chorus

As I said it's a work in progress.....

I think we are actually on base here, sozobe. That is pretty much the same approach I would have taken. I belong to another poetry forum that recently banned overly short comments, like "that's great" or "good poem". By default, when commenting, it has to add up to a certain number of characters.

Now "Headin' to Armageddon" I LIKE! :-)

(You really want specific criticism? Will give it if you want...)

That's an interesting rule, Cav.

Yeah, I think we basically agree.

Part of it for me is that it's a lot of work to do it that way, and if I think what people actually want is strokes, I won't bother. Might do more if "critiques appreciated" becomes a thing.

sure, keeping in mind I live in a red state and this song is specifically designed to annoy them.....although as simple as it is some of it will go over their heads....

Bear

I would really enjoy hearing that song

Hey, Bi. Change that line to "....orders straight from Christ..." . More in keeping with the meter.

Bear, I think it is in keeping with a fine line of political troubadors, like the Fugs, and Sascha Boran Cohen, aka, Ali G, who, as his character from Kazikhstan, Borat, spun this ditty at an open mike night in a southern country bar (video link): http://inhonor.net/videos/uped/fl_video.php?f_num=92500 I understand your concerns about it going over their heads.

It reads that way Letty but because it slows down at that point to sort of bring in the chorus the phrasing actually works, and I like having the Jesus in there.....it reads clumsily on paper though I agree......

bear, tighten your lines a bit so that you have bettwer meter and you got a winner for the RED STATE JAYMBOREE.
I hear this wit a deep bottleneck guitar , like Ry Cooders interpretations