15
   

My documentaries, the documentaries that I recommend

 
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2023 07:51 pm
@Leadfoot,
It is an argument anyone can make, it follows necessarily either way. I've made it on my own as most of what I write long ago, but I've seen it replicated later on when I started watching the arguments within Theologians and Philosophers...that argument is an inference that probably exists in some better or worse fashion since the middle ages...

You have all sorts of variants leaning back forward or in between, from Spinoza God is nature, up to the more recent Panentheism which tries to invert the argument. The fact that you are not familiar with how that train of though occurs naturally from the premisses by which God can be accounted for is telling.

Here once more let me quote one of Robert Lawrence Khun interviews to avoid digging some black and white old reunion between Harry Potter mystics on Youtube:
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2023 08:43 pm
This plane fits all, from treacherous atheists, classical theists, natural pantheists, and new age panentheists, that love to observe Nature from above!
It goes with my seal of approval as the best general aviation plane so far developed for MSFS 2020, here take a look:


Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2023 10:13 pm
On fine tuning for and against:
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 02:52 am
Alternative Gods:
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 05:02 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
It is an argument anyone can make, it follows necessarily either way. I've made it on my own as most of what I write long ago, but I've seen it replicated later on when I started watching the arguments within Theologians and Philosophers...that argument is an inference that probably exists in some better or worse fashion since the middle ages...

I guess I was doing the same thing as you said earlier. I was skipping past the obvious. If this is an artificial created existence we are living, its creator would necessarily be outside of space, time, universe, etc.

Another comment you made was:
Quote:
No I am sufficiently familiar with the endless debate regarding the complexity of proteins and even the smallest form of life...heck cells alone are a complete nightmarish complexity problem...
. This is one reason I do not think you are educated about molecular biology. Based on that statement, you seem to think that cells are at a lower level of complexity than what I discuss in the protein argument.
Everything i discussed so far in that argument is several orders of magnitude LOWER than a single cell. We aren’t even close to discussing something as complicated as a cell.

It is so little understood that scientists constantly have to make up new terms for things they can’t even begin to explain, like dark matter, dark energy, gravitons, and in your world, ultimism. In biology, their 'dark energy' they call the 'interactome'. That’s the whatever it is that starts off the coordination and orchestration of about 42,000,000 molecular machines (proteins) in single cell, that no one has seen yet.

We are not even close to understanding a simple cell. We just got our start at understanding what a few of the tens of thousands of different types of proteins are. What is funny is that they expected all of us to line up and let them inject their first experimental tinkering with something so little understood into our bodies. I guess you can dismiss what I’ve said as the ravings of a conspiracy theorist now, questioning sacred 'science' and all that.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 05:05 am
@Albuquerque,
On a different but related subject:
As you also said earlier, ‘It’s all falling apart.'. I told you I agree. Would you elaborate more on what you meant by that and why it is happening?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 05:14 am
@Albuquerque,
The Wilga is amazing. The first time I saw one in the flesh I was in awe of the raw functionality of it. I wondered who were the visionary designers who could throw aircraft esthetics to the wind and make this supremely purpose built machine! When I saw the hammer and sickle insignia on the tools that came with it, I gained a new respect for Soviet engineers, and a little more worried about who might win WW III.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 07:48 am
@Leadfoot,
No the cell thing was just what came to mind as I recalled my cytology studies back at University...I immediately knew as I finish writing it that you would do that exact deduction...I didn't care to correct it...that said and tho I've seen some videos on the complexity of proteins I am by no means an expert...obviously a cell is orders of magnitude more complex then the folding of proteins.

Regarding your next point it is hard to elaborate.
I have a vivid impression that all the language we use will indeed fall apart, I dunno how to convey that feeling to you in a rational way. It is just a vivid instinctive very strong impression I have that gives me the chills.
Perhaps I intuit that the problem is bigger then language, anyway I cannot pinpoint or articulate the sensation in cogent terms. My guess is that the complexity we find ourselves in with technology is way over our heads...
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 07:52 am
@Leadfoot,
I am glad you had the pleasure in my place of having seen one...I hope you can now enjoy it from the comfort of your PC! The guy in the video making the review is a real A320 Airbus pilot. It is extremely rare to see him crash any plane so this review is a rare video...
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 08:04 am
@Albuquerque,
Correction accepted.

And to further your comment on protein folding, a problem we have not fully solved yet, but with that in mind, consider the difficulty in choosing just the right combination in the string of hundreds to thousands of amino acids, that when later folded in just one way out of trillions, will perform one of thousands of vital cellular functions.
In the majority of cases, if you switch a single amino acid in the pre-folded string or make a single error in folding, it's dead.

Sorry, I get carried away every time I see an awesome design, human or otherwise.
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 08:13 am
@Leadfoot,
That problem goes way back to the very numbers seen in the 4 forces themselves...You change them just a bit and the whole thing falls apart...tweak gravity or the strong nuclear force or whatever else and things go a wire.
While I understand how that argument is strong from your point of view for me wondering always about ultimate nature it does not solve the problem...

You see I don't care much what people prefer to call Reality, that is at its base a tribal dispute...I am now focused on getting some more enlightenment on retro causation and other top down approaches...I leave the topic of consciousness aside as is to hard to tackle whatever side or end you are coming from.
One thing I did not change is my utmost rejection of the concept of free will, at least as is presented in its current form...the only way I see some usefulness to it is in the phenomenological need we have to make do with it in daily life languaging.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 08:20 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
I have a vivid impression that all the language we use will indeed fall apart, I dunno how to convey that feeling to you in a rational way. It is just a vivid instinctive very strong impression I have that gives me the chills.


Thank you for that reply. It was/is very helpful.
I think most people are having similar 'elevated feelings' . Wish I could see actual data charted over the last century, if such were possible.

There is of course this recognition in the media of more 'stress' in the populace and of course the 'experts' cite the usual suspects, war fears, pandemics, energy shortages, inflation fear, racial strife, etc. I have agreed with that in the past.
This time feels different.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 08:41 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
That problem goes way back to the very numbers seen in the 4 forces themselves...You change them just a bit and the whole thing falls apart...tweak gravity or the strong nuclear force or whatever else and things go a wire.
While I understand how that argument is strong from your point of view for me wondering always about ultimate nature it does not solve the problem...

Yes, I see the appeal of the top down approach, and it can be helpful (ID!), but one must acknowledge when one has reached the end of the story. Well, ok, pesky old gravity still kicks our ass.

But the best in the business say correctly that we haven't made any real progress since the 1970's. The 'giant breakthrough' at LHC was only an 'Oh yeah, Higgs was right.' (He got there by the top down approach!)

My point got lost there, let me just ask this hypothetical. Suppose the next bigger LHC finally discovers the graviton and the Standard Model of physics is totally completed and the last mystery of how matter interacts in all circumstances is scientifically understood.

How would this affect your search for, or understanding of, 'existence'?
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 08:49 am
@Leadfoot,
...never negated the importance of the phenomenological world...in fact if people paid any attention to my nonsense I often said that it is just a valid DOMAIN of the Real as any other domain. I usually tend to finish that train of thought with the sentence dreams are real if you have dreamed them.
In most debates when people say this is not real while this is real I see a misperception going on. They should say this is not valid in this domain and rather is valid on that domain. I honestly don't know what they mean not real in absolute terms. As Parmenides and other Ancient philosophers explained long ago you cannot name Non Being. For this I use the metaphor of inventing a line which is neither curve nor straight as an allegory. You cannot think of such geometry no matter how much you try to "invent" it...hence why BEING IS in all its shapes and forms beyond spacetime.
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 09:09 am
@Leadfoot,
In my way of seeing things an atom is as important as your experience of self, or as your idea of the Creator, Ultimate Reality whatever people want to name it.

That is to mean nothing is so small that it is not worth account for in the realm of what IS Real, nor so big that becomes Alien to anything else.
Religions mystically call that thing, that relation between all things Love with capital L...in mystic terms Love is intelligibility, the ability to be relatable.
...and this is where my idea on fractals comes in...if something is to big for your brain to compute, remember that in fractals the notion of size is moot...whatever works in transcendent domains beyond our own Anthropocentric description of the world in some way it is expressed down here through a fractal...in such a way that we can in the least vaguely capture its essence.

Remember..."To see a World in a Grain of Sand. And a Heaven in a Wild Flower. Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand. And Eternity in an hour."
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 10:12 am
Meanwhile, the stink of fear in the brink of madness, it is a toilet paper run all over again...
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 10:19 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
In my way of seeing things an atom is as important as your experience of self, or as your idea of the Creator, Ultimate Reality whatever people want to name it.

Ah, now I feel so smaaaaall..

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 10:20 am
@Albuquerque,
Never fear, Yellen is here. This is fine. Hahahahaha…
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 10:33 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
whatever works in transcendent domains beyond our own Anthropocentric description of the world in some way it is expressed down here through a fractal...in such a way that we can in the least vaguely capture its essence.

Is that anything like being created in the image of God? Seeing, as through a glass darkly?
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Mar, 2023 10:57 am
@Leadfoot,
I don't like the word "created" as in my point of view there is no specific point of origin in a loop. Outside spacetime I posit the totality as BEING.

As in a fractal I don't ascribe any special point as more important either.

The alpha and the Omega both exist in Completeness. You would probably like the analogy that refers the "father" and the "son" as the same, wether you believe it or not I grant it is indeed a cunning idea imbibed in the mystical exploration of the trinity...the holy ghost is the motion or locomotion of the phenomenological world, which again is no less real then the Ontological thing per se as a whole. Again the fractal analogy is useful here.

To the point your analogy still stands that we can be a smaller form of some higher form of consciousness, tho I must insist no less or no more important, both necessary in Being. In these I think the Eastern traditions have a better understanding then we have in the West...
 

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