0
   

Reinstating a Draft

 
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:42 pm
"In other words you taught your boys to let someone else do their thinking. I begin to understand how G Bush was re-elected."

Nope. I taught them to think for themselves and be self-reliant....and of course to respect authority.

I taught them to take part in the process of electing their representatives and leaders, and then keep an eye on them while they do the jobs they were selected to do..which includes the decision on where and when war is necessary.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:45 pm
Larry434 wrote:
"In other words you taught your boys to let someone else do their thinking. I begin to understand how G Bush was re-elected."

Nope. I taught them to think for themselves and be self-reliant....and of course to respect authority.

I taught them to take part in the process of electing their representatives and leaders, and then keep an eye on them while they do the jobs they were selected to do..which includes the decision on where and when war is necessary.


and if, in keeping their eye on their representatives as they make decisions on war, they find they disagree with the leaders and their decisions it doesn't matter because don't ask why do or die trumps it?

And they call me Bi-Polar..... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:45 pm
"You can have that philosophy, enjoy it, live and die by it, and mold your children to do the same. I feel sorry for them."

But of course. You are a liberal with no tolerance for conservative values.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:46 pm
duplicate deleted.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:49 pm
Larry434 wrote:
"You can have that philosophy, enjoy it, live and die by it, and mold your children to do the same. I feel sorry for them."

But of course. You are a liberal with no tolerance for conservative values.


no tolerance for radical values that lack conscience, compassion, a broad view, or that will get my kids killed so someone can drive a bigger car.....damn right no tolerance. But those are not conservative values, those are right wingnut values.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:52 pm
"and if, in keeping their eye on their representatives as they make decisions on war, they find they disagree with the leaders and their decisions it doesn't matter because don't ask why do or die trumps it?"

But of course.

They may hold the personal opinion that it is "the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time" and still recognize that their personal opinion is not the relevant opinion....but that of the representatives and leaders they elected is.

So they don't reason why, they just do or die as patriots
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:56 pm
"no tolerance for radical values that lack conscience, compassion, a broad view, or that will get my kids killed so someone can drive a bigger car.....damn right no tolerance. But those are not conservative values, those are right wingnut values."

Anything in the political center would look radical to you methinks.

You have just confirmed you have no tolerance for any view other than your own.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 07:58 pm
Larry434 wrote:
"and if, in keeping their eye on their representatives as they make decisions on war, they find they disagree with the leaders and their decisions it doesn't matter because don't ask why do or die trumps it?"

But of course.

They may hold the personal opinion that it is "the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time" and still recognize that their personal opinion is not the relevant opinion....but that of the representatives and leaders they elected is.

So they don't reason why, they just do or die as patriots


my God that is twisted
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:01 pm
Larry434 wrote:
"no tolerance for radical values that lack conscience, compassion, a broad view, or that will get my kids killed so someone can drive a bigger car.....damn right no tolerance. But those are not conservative values, those are right wingnut values."

Anything in the political center would look radical to you methinks.

You have just confirmed you have no tolerance for any view other than your own.


you thinks wrong, and I have tolerance for many views other than my own, as my conservative friends would tell you.

You and I will never agree I'm afraid beciause IMO your opinions are way beyond conservative and lacking any of the values that mark a compassionate human being. That's your perogative.

and, you have no tolerance for any opinions other than your own, so if it's okay for you then it should be okay for me. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:07 pm
Wow. Missed those responses re "You couldn't completely trust a drafted fighting force."

Surely, you must know I didn't mean you couldn't trust PAST drafted fighting forces. I'm referring to the present climate.

Geez.

Me. Cast aspersions on the guys from WW2, Korea? The best crop of manhood this country has ever produced???

Things have changed. The Greatest Generation has passed...IMO.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:16 pm
"you have no tolerance for any opinions other than your own"

Not so. I have tolerance for your views. Have I ever condemned them? No. All I have done is offer my own.

You have repeatedly condemned mine and thus show no tolerance of them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:16 pm
to this statement
Quote:
"and if, in keeping their eye on their representatives as they make decisions on war, they find they disagree with the leaders and their decisions it doesn't matter because don't ask why do or die trumps it?"


larry responded
Quote:
But of course.

They may hold the personal opinion that it is "the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time" and still recognize that their personal opinion is not the relevant opinion....but that of the representatives and leaders they elected is.

So they don't reason why, they just do or die as patriots


As I said. Soldiers come a dime a dozen. Iranians, Germans, Japanese, Tutus, Americans, Greeks, Candians.

What would these folks do, what would Larry do, without an authority to help them put the left foot in front of the right foot?

What do we do in any attempt to have Larry, who is 70, come to trust himself and govern himself?
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:22 pm
"What would these folks do, what would Larry do, without an authority to help them put the left foot in front of the right foot?"

That would be the case in an anarchy. Do you advocate that?
0 Replies
 
Magus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 03:09 am
Iraq is just the base of operations for our subsequent operations in Iran, pakistan, etc.
THAT "mission" IS accomplished.

The endless war ahead (a la Orwell's "1984") is pretty much a certainty... and once that reality percolates through to the consciousness of the citizenry of the USA, conscription will be NECESSARY.

The whole POINT is to neutralize the "surplus population"... using the demographic most likely to end up in jail (due to lack of employment opportunity) as the Front Line Cannon Fodder.

That's how it's ALWAYS been done... the Cult of the Sword is really enthusiastic about "Tradition"!
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 03:14 am
WOW Surprised 11 Yeses. That surprises me.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 06:39 am
Larry434 wrote:
"What would these folks do, what would Larry do, without an authority to help them put the left foot in front of the right foot?"

That would be the case in an anarchy. Do you advocate that?


larry

You avoid the moral problem. The problem is bad wars, bad orders, bad leaders. Ought German soldiers to have followed their orders to pack Jews into boxcars? Ought the Hutu soldiers to have followed their orders, resulting in the death of 100,000 Rwanadans in 100 days, mainly civilians, many women and children, hacked up with machetes? Ought South African military and police to have followed orders to mow down blacks for being black? Ought Chilean police and soldiers to have said, "OK" when ordered to murder parentless children or to throw dissidents out of helicopters? Ought Argentinian soldiers to have allowed dogs to chew off the testicles of political enemies? Do you advocate that?

When you give up your own conscience, you give up your duty to yourself, to your community, to mankind, and to your god.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 06:43 am
blatham wrote:
Larry434 wrote:
"What would these folks do, what would Larry do, without an authority to help them put the left foot in front of the right foot?"

That would be the case in an anarchy. Do you advocate that?


larry

You avoid the moral problem. The problem is bad wars, bad orders, bad leaders. Ought German soldiers to have followed their orders to pack Jews into boxcars? Ought the Hutu soldiers to have followed their orders, resulting in the death of 100,000 Rwanadans in 100 days, mainly civilians, many women and children, hacked up with machetes? Ought South African military and police to have followed orders to mow down blacks for being black? Ought Chilean police and soldiers to have said, "OK" when ordered to murder parentless children or to throw dissidents out of helicopters? Ought Argentinian soldiers to have allowed dogs to chew off the testicles of political enemies? Do you advocate that?

When you give up your own conscience, you give up your duty to yourself, to your community, to mankind, and to your god.


Those are examples of abuse of authority.

I agree that abuse of authority is both an immoral and illegal act.

But the authority of government, legally employed, and honored by good citizens is preferable to anarchy.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2004 10:27 am
National Guard Hiring 1,400 Recruiters

By JOE MANDAK
Associated Press Writer

CORAOPOLIS, Pa. (AP) -- Increasing numbers of soldiers are deciding not to join the Army National Guard after they leave active duty, a trend so troubling that the Guard is hiring 1,400 more recruiters to reverse it.

The Guard's new recruiters - plus its 2,700 already on the job - will be aiming to get high schoolers and 20-somethings to sign up like they never have before.

In fiscal 2004, the Guard had expected 7,100 soldiers to sign up after active duty tours. Instead, only 2,900 did - not even half. As a result, what's supposed to be a 350,000-member organization had just 342,918 soldiers when the year closed out on Sept. 30.

"If a soldier is near the end of their term of service and looking to stabilize their life, they know the likelihood is they're going to be deployed if they join the Guard," said Lt. Col. Mike Milord, spokesman for the Guard's headquarters in Arlington, Va.

In Pennsylvania, recruiters are enlisting just 200 of the 300 soldiers statewide they must sign up every month to keep the Pennsylvania Army National Guard 16,000 soldiers strong. Right now, according to spokesman Lt. Col. Chris Cleaver, it has 14,982.

The National Guard is similar to the Reserves in that soldiers sign up for part-time duty. Pennsylvania enlistees can join for three years, but most join for six because they get up to $70,000 in pay, bonuses and college tuition, including full-tuition at any of 14 state-owned universities. While reserve troops are always under the President's command, each state's Guard troops answer to the governor - unless they are called to active duty.

What's changed the face of the Guard is the increased likelihood of active duty deployment in the last decade, especially since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks. The Pennsylvania Guard used to be split about 60-40 between former active duty troops and civilian recruits; now its about 35-65, Cleaver said.

Recruiting younger civilians continues to be a challenge, though officials say those numbers are holding steady and should grow because the new recruiters will be targeting them.

The Guard used to sell recruits on the idea of spending just one weekend a month, plus two weeks in the summer, in uniform.

"On average, right now, its 100 days a year," said Cleaver, noting that average is skewed by some 4,500 Pennsylvania Guard troops in Iraq. "If you sign up, we are probably going to need you to go (to Iraq), or at least be in an environment where you're going to be needed more often."

"This is not your father's National Guard. The big joke used to be, 'It's one weekend off a month,'" Clever said.

But while the war in Iraq may be chasing former soldiers away, recruiter Sgt. 1st Class William Merriman said many younger recruits welcome their almost certain deployment.

Pvt. Frank Kelly, 22, was married with a 1-year-old daughter and new house when he signed up in April. He will probably ship out to Iraq with the 128th Forward Support Battalion by February.

"I didn't want nobody else fighting for my family and I wanted to fight for my country," said Kelly. He likes the service so much he may enlist full-time when he returns home.

"Basic training, they could have pushed you harder. It wasn't (tough) like it is in the movies," Kelly said. "I joined to get pushed to the limit and my limits weren't pushed yet."

"When he walked in the door, I didn't have to do any sell on him at all," Merriman said. "If they were all like him, I'd have the easiest job in the world."


Where if not through the draft will Bush get the cannon fodder to fight his elective wars?
0 Replies
 
Magus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 04:42 pm
"I didn't want anybody else fighting for my family", said Pvt. Kelly.

Kelly sees himself as going it all alone... ?

Narcissistic egocentricity?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 09:09 pm
The war in Iraq can't be won with the present troop strength—if by winning we mean stability, and the number of troops can't be sufficiently increased without a draft; however, Bush won't institute the draft for political reasons. Therefore, his only recourse is to change the definition of victory. Since Bush's latest reason to invade Iraq was to bring democracy and freedom to Iraq, the election will become the de facto achievement of freedom and democracy.

In my opinion, the U.S. will leave Iraq by the end of next year most likely because the elected Shiite government will kick the U.S. out. The U.S. has little power in this matter because Bush has no appetite or ability to fight a Shiite insurgency. A civil war will ensue, and other Shiites will help the Iraqi Shiites—possibly Iran—brutally defeat the Sunnis, and a severly repressive and merciless regime will, for a spell, rule Iraq.

Still, Bush will have had his de facto democracy installed in Iraq, a democracy of sorts.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 09/27/2022 at 05:46:31