Bill Clinton: Why Bush Won

"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy"

Yup. The Dems didn't listen to Zell Miller, perhaps they will pay more attention to Clinton.

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"The Republicans had a clear message, a good messenger, great organization and great strategy"

I agree to an extent....the repubs message was clear.....the messenger was an attractive well controlled mouthpiece..........a digital candidate with an image designed from results of studies of what triggered the correct pavlovian response in the lab animals of the heartland......and a strategy based on two things.... K.I.S.S. and fear......

and that was Clintons code to those bright enough to understand it......

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Damn. He has exactly the same take on Arafat and democracy in the ME as I do. Which one of us is in disagreement with our party...or is this the view of both parties?

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btw my apologies to the heartland...the south and the far west are equally trainable lab animals so it would seem......

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

btw my apologies to the heartland...the south and the far west are equally trainable lab animals so it would seem......

Keep up that rhetoric of insulting the intellect of conservatives who rejected the Dem agenda. It is a sure way to earn their rejection again in the next election.

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Larry434 wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
btw my apologies to the heartland...the south and the far west are equally trainable lab animals so it would seem......

Keep up that rhetoric of insulting the intellect of conservatives who rejected the Dem agenda. It is a sure way to earn their rejection again in the next election.

yeah but I'm not running and I never will....that gives me the ability to tell it like it is.....if you guys don't like me for it it effects nothing.....I have the ability and advantage of being able to stick stubbornly to my beliefs....something that oddly enough you admire in your boy......

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

btw my apologies to the heartland...the south and the far west are equally trainable lab animals so it would seem......

I'll repeat the point I made in another thread:

And every time that you post or voice stuff like this, you ensure that people from the 'fly over' red states will not ever vote for one of your candidates.

If you decided to create the greatest politician in the world, give him the brains of Einstein, the compassion of Mother Theresa, the strength of character of Fredrick Douglas, the honesty of George Washington and the charisma of Jack Kennedy. You take this paragon of humanity, place him, on the Democratic ticket and then say:

"Alright you ignorant backwoods redneck, this is the guy who you should vote for because we know who is best for you."

Nine times out of ten, if you address a group of people (Consisting of half the population) with utter contempt like this, they wouldn't vote for this individual even if he was running against Joe Stalin.

Treating someone who disagrees with you with contempt, distain and like they are some sort of mental defective is NOT the way to convince them that your ideas have merit.

Every time you look down your noses at the people of the heartland, they just shake their heads and pull the lever for the guy they feel will NOT look down on them.

When people work hard all day, drinks a few beers after work, watches NASCAR, goes fishing with his buddys on Saturdays and goes to church on Sundays doesn't make them ignorant rubes, it makes them Americans just like you...

Just because he doesn't sit around Starbucks drinking a 7 dollar cup of 'coffee' and plan how the world could be 'perfect' if the democrats were in charge, doesn't give your opinion any more validity than that man sitting on that barstool in Enid, Oklahoma. It doesn't mean you are smarter than that man fishing in his boat in Mississippi and it doesn't give you any moral ascendency over that man praying in church in Mobile, Alabama.

Why not try thinking of these people as friends and looking at their wants and fears and try to find common ground instead of denigrating them at every opportunity.

Just my 2 cents... pre tax.

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All do respect, fedral and larry, this mantra you two are spouting (which can be heard on every media outlet as well, talk about a hive mind) in which you tell those of us who are vehemently opposed to the tighty righty agenda that we are offending the sensibilities of the real Americans with our offensive comments is just the latest, most creative way you've found to say 'neener, neener, you lose'. Everybody knows that this election was about Bush and terrorism. It was not a referendum on the relative merits of liberalism vs. conservatism. Our country is divided, that's true, but neither side has the moral high ground when it comes to insulting and stereotyping the other. Just read through a few of these threads and you will see what I mean. The vile nastiness comes from both sides, but your side, right now anyway, seems to be letting loose with some of the nastiest bigotted rhetoric I have ever heard. If there's anything worse than a sore loser, it's a sore winner.

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FreeDuck wrote:

All do respect, fedral and larry, this mantra you two are spouting (which can be heard on every media outlet as well, talk about a hive mind) in which you tell those of us who are vehemently opposed to the tighty righty agenda that we are offending the sensibilities of the real Americans with our offensive comments is just the latest, most creative way you've found to say 'neener, neener, you lose'. Everybody knows that this election was about Bush and terrorism. It was not a referendum on the relative merits of liberalism vs. conservatism. Our country is divided, that's true, but neither side has the moral high ground when it comes to insulting and stereotyping the other. Just read through a few of these threads and you will see what I mean. The vile nastiness comes from both sides, but your side, right now anyway, seems to be letting loose with some of the nastiest bigotted rhetoric I have ever heard. If there's anything worse than a sore loser, it's a sore winner.

I agree that there is a lot of bile and invective spewing out on all sides, but the one thing I keep hearing over and over from those with Kerry stickers on their cars is:

"How did we lose" or "How could the Amrican people vote for Bush[/b]

I'm trying to help the Kerry supporters understand how angry we in the red states get when we get treated like a bunch of dangerous mental defectives because we don't live in the north east or on the Pacific coast.

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"I'm trying to help the Kerry supporters understand how angry we in the red states get when we get treated like a bunch of dangerous mental defectives because we don't live in the north east or on the Pacific coast."

They just don't want to hear that insulting the intellect and values of half the electorate is not a good way to win their vote.

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Fedral wrote:

I'm trying to help the Kerry supporters understand how angry we in the red states get when we get treated like a bunch of dangerous mental defectives because we don't live in the north east or on the Pacific coast.

But what you're doing is telling us that we are not real Americans because we do live in the north east or on the Pacific coast, or are outvoted democrats living in the heartland or the south.

The impression you are getting that 'liberals' think that those in the red states are backwards inbred freaks, is largely perpetuated by your own party. And those who speak for your party (Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh) have been demonizing the 'left' for over 15 years.

I say all of this as someone with no party affiliation. In fact something like 26% of the voters in this election have no party affiliation. This us vs. them rhetoric has the effect of galvanizing people into taking sides they might not ordinarily take. We'd all do better to understand that for all intents and purposes, for every one of 'us' there is one of 'them' and surely there must be something that connects us.

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With all due respect to Clinton who I still love, I think he is wrong that we got to be more "right" than the republicans. Dean said it best, "we can't out republican the republicans." If get all moral (or priggish) we are just going to seem what we will be, fakes.

We just got to do a better job of selling our own message and if it don't sell right away, don't give up, but just keep on selling.

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revel wrote:

We just got to do a better job of selling our own message and if it don't sell right away, don't give up, but just keep on selling.

Finding a more exciting and charismatic messenger would help as well.

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Clinton is very good at sounding like he is a republican.

I agree that Kerry did little to appeal to republicans. It was almost as if he just hoped there would be enough democrats to outvote them.

I thought Nader would get all the democrat votes, actually. I'm still surprised anyone voted for either Bush or Kerry.

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eoe wrote:

revel wrote:
We just got to do a better job of selling our own message and if it don't sell right away, don't give up, but just keep on selling.

Finding a more exciting and charismatic messenger would help as well.

A message would help, too.

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FreeDuck wrote:

But what you're doing is telling us that we are not real Americans because we do live in the north east or on the Pacific coast, or are outvoted democrats living in the heartland or the south.
.

At what point in any of my posts did I say or imply that you were not 'real Americans' or lacked any patriotism or love of your country.

I was pointing out how the people who were being and still are being denigrated as 'idiots' and 'morons' for voting for Bush in the press on a daily basis have a level of anger that you should appreciate.

Don't try to turn it around and make yourselves the 'victims' by implying that I attacked you or your Americanism. I did not... anywhere.

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Fedral, I didn't mean anything to do with patriotism or love of country or whatever when I said you were implying that we are not 'real Americans'. What I meant to illustrate, is that your remarks (and the remarks of others who parrot these same points) embody the same sort of stereotyping and denigration as those that you are complaining about.

I'm sorry if I came off as a little thin skinned about it. But Republicans, being the masters of message that they are, have been piping this message from every orifice since the end of the election. And even though it doesn't really apply to me since I am not a member of the 'left', I am defensive about it because the idea itself implies that I must be part of the 'left' as I am clearly not part of the right.

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I finally see your point, FreeDuck. It seemed like you were being irational, but it made your point.

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For the record, I would like to believe that people in the red counties are not morons and idiots, just because they voted for Bush. The most Republican county in Idaho (the second-most Republican state in the nation, behind Utah) has elected an Independent County Commissioner twice in the past four years - me! In fact, I ran unopposed two years ago. These people in the South and West tend to vote for the individual, rather than the party, and I happen to think that's not such a bad thing.

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Bill Clinton: Why Bush Won

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