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What is feminism all about?

 
 
Reply Tue 25 Apr, 2017 09:50 am
I'm researching for my final major project in college and need some opinions on how people react to feminism.

Do you believe that feminism is about coming together as a community, being strong together and creating an influential force to encourage change?

All opinions are welcome! Thank you Smile
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 25 Apr, 2017 10:16 am
@pcaitlin7,
I am what Christina Hoff Summers calls an equity feminism. (She is an author you should read if you want an intelligent critique of modern feminism.) I sometimes call myself an "anti-feminist" just to draw attention to the fact that I think that often modern feminism is anti-intellectual.

I believe in equality for women. I support equal pay, and reproductive rights. I certainly support the expansion of the role of women into areas of political power and economic power. I am raising a very intelligent daughter who I want to be successful. I am teaching her to be an engineer. I am not teaching her to be a feminist (although she does have her own mind and will make her own choices.).

However, much of modern feminism pushes a narrative that isn't fact based or reasonable.

I was upset at the role feminism played in the Hillary Clinton campaign where what I consider a flawed candidate was forced on us. She lost because she is a Clinton, not because she was a woman. The idea that a woman shouldn't face the same type of attacks faced by McCain, or John Kerry, or any other losing or winning candidate is any thing but equality. Supporters of Bernie were labeled "Bernie Bros" and attacked as sexist for choosing a candidate that wasn't Hillary, and Hillary went on to be the only person in history to lose to Donald Trump.

The issue of censorship is a big problem in modern feminism. The idea that voices should be silenced, or that shows should be censored or that speakers should be kept from campuses is anti-intellectual.

Modern Feminism is often ideological; it take positions based on narrative that are sometimes illogical given the stated goal of equality. Try being a divorced father, for example. This is an area where are routinely discriminated against by courts that still follow traditional gender roles. Prominent feminists have taken the stance that diminish the role of fathers in spite of the fact that they claim to be for equality.

You did ask for all opinions..... I hope you appreciate mine.

There is a backlash against feminism that I think is deserved. A clear majority of women abstain from identifying as feminists. I think that if modern feminism were more about equality and less about pushing a political narrative it would have better success.
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izzythepush
 
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Reply Sat 6 May, 2017 10:19 am
There's a lot of blokes who blame feminism for not having a girlfriend because acne, flatulence and halitosis were well fashionable before feminists started spouting off.
maxdancona
 
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Reply Sat 6 May, 2017 10:42 am
@izzythepush,
There are a lot of feminists who blame blokes for not having a boyfriend because acne, flatulence and halitosis were well fashionable before blokes started spouting off.

Do feminists accept that women as well as men have acne, flatulence and halitosis?
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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Sat 6 May, 2017 10:59 am
@pcaitlin7,
I don't give a rats ass about "feminism" but pay good attention to equity regarding gender race or culture.
izzythepush
 
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Reply Sat 6 May, 2017 11:45 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
What about religion, blood group or hair colour. Are you happy to persecute on those grounds, because B positives really get on my tits?
Fuzzunater
 
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Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2017 10:31 pm
Why is feminism still a thing
jespah
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 06:13 am
@Fuzzunater,
Google Gamergate and you'll know.

Or the brouhaha around casting a woman as Dr. Who, or a woman as the lead in the new Star Trek series (and that's despite there already being a Trek series with a female lead).

Or just read what people did here:
http://www.thewrap.com/marvel-editor-cyber-bullied-after-posting-selfie-with-friends-drinking-milkshakes/
maxdancona
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 07:52 am
@jespah,
The bruhaha around a female Doctor who is mostly a fiction. The vast majority of Dr. Who fans polled were very supportive of a female Doctor. Yes, there was a couple dozen ugly posts, but you can find ugly posts on anything... it's the internet.

The alleged "backlash" against the female Doctor was invented to support an ideological narrative. It is the feminist version of illegal immigrant voters stealing the popular vote.
maxdancona
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 07:59 am
@jespah,
I am curious Jespah... have you read the other side of the gamergate scandal? One narrative of gamergate has become csnnonized among feminisrs. The narrative doesn't match the facts.

I would again recommend Christina Hoff Sommers for the other side of the story.

Feminism is an ideology that often puts narrative over facts.
ossobucotemp
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:13 am
@maxdancona,
When I was at university, I purchased the MCAT book that listed all the med schools in the US and, if I remember, Canada.
This was in 1962. Something like 90% had accepted NO women the year before. Of the rest that did accept women, the numbers ran from 2 to maybe 8, out of , say, 50 or sixty or more students. One school, I think in Pennsylvania, was only for female applicants.

This affected myself (strongly) and other women who were interested in practicing medicine.

Things changed after the Civil Rights Act, at a better pace, for women to be able to get into med schools, and, I think, law schools.

I'm still alive and remember this situation well. You are talking out of your present day lack of knowledge (ignorance) of what went on, even as late as in the 60's. The sixties were when a variety of feminists wrote some books... that I presume energized other women to consider openings in what was possible.

jespah
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:13 am
@maxdancona,
I personally know people who've been harassed by Gamergaters.

As for the Dr. Who thing - I am deep in the geek culture. I have seen a lot of it - and yes, it's probably hyped for the media but that doesn't mean it's absent.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:23 am
@ossobucotemp,
I also remember a lot of the reasoning behind the situation: women would only go so far until they left to get married and have children, so they weren't worth the education effort. There was a male doctor in Ohio (forget the name) who was particularly loud about this in print.
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Fil Albuquerque
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:29 am
@izzythepush,
Come to think about it I would hate to work with one of those creationist fanatics....that said if they were competent at their job n shut while at work the job would be granted.

As for feminism or any other isms at large I think they dimish their group. In my world I look at competence only.
ossobucotemp
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:37 am
@ossobucotemp,
correction -
to consider openings in what was now possible for them

I do remember that quite suddenly, at least at my university, more and more women changed to pre-med.
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maxdancona
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 08:48 am
My issue with feminism is the ideological narrative; in modern feminism the narrative is more important than the facts.

I agree with "feminist" opinions on many issues. I support wage equality, and opportunities for women in sciences. The problem is that feminism has become an ideology that many believe shouldn't be questioned.

The Doctor Who kerfuffle is a perfect example. The feminist narrative is "sexist male science fiction fans are threatened by a female Doctor". This narrative is demonstrably false... you can poll fans (which has been done). You can look at the shows ratings (which will be done).

Jespah says she experienced something... and I don't know Jespah's friends. Jespah's observation is different my observation. I do know that Jespah's post matches the ideological narrative. I also know that there was a fair amount of griping with Peter Capaldi was selected as the new Doctor, I suppose we could compare. But this is what happened...

Once we have a feminist narrative that says "male science fiction fans will be threatened by a female Doctor Who", the facts no longer matter. The actual opinions of the vast majority of male science fiction fans don't matter. Every single twitter post that supports the narrative will be accepted as gospel fact, and every single poll that contradicts the narrative will be ignored. The narrative is more important than the facts.

The same thing happened with Gamer-gate. There are some facts in the gamer-gate story that do support the feminist narrative (some male gamers acted in ways that were pretty ugly). But there was more to the story... and again, the narrative was more important than the facts.

Equality for women is important, and there are certainly specific ways that we can change society to make it more fair. Give me a way forward that makes sense, and I will support it whether you are a feminist or not.

But tell me that feminist ideology can't be questioned and you lost my support. If you, shoot down anyone who supports men's rights without listening to them, if you shout down and block out speakers in colleges or make claims that are easily disproved and attack people who question them... I am going to speak out against you.

Feminism has become an ideology that many people believe should not be questioned where the narrative is more important than the facts.

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izzythepush
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:15 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Feminists only want equal treatment, I can't see what's wrong with that.
maxdancona
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:24 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Feminists only want equal treatment, I can't see what's wrong with that.


Women who aren't feminists also want equal treatment. You don't need an ideological narrative for that.
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izzythepush
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:31 am
No real man has anything to fear from feminism. And no real man does. I would like to apologise to women for the pathetic worms out there who are. terrified of a world where women have equal rights.

Those spineless creeps don't talk for us, we don't consider them men.
maxdancona
 
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Reply Fri 4 Aug, 2017 09:36 am
@izzythepush,
The biggest challenge to Izzy's tirade is that there are many women who oppose feminism. When they oppose feminism they aren't afraid of "a world where women have equal rights". They are opposing feminism because it is a political ideology that doesn't speak for them. These personal attacks are another example where the narrative "feminism is opposed by men who fear women" is contradicted by facts; feminism is questioned by intelligent men and women who see the political narrative is often contradicted by facts.

There is a danger to an ideological narrative that can't be questioned. Calling these women and men "pathetic worms" because they question a political ideology means that dialog is impossible.
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