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Anti-Muslim Dutch politicians in hiding after death threats

 
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 May, 2006 05:06 pm
Herbert...
Quote:
In a recent opinion poll of Maurice de Hond, the question was asked, "Do you think Dutch society has lost its identity?"A whopping 61% said yes, 36% said no.

So the question begs: Where are these numbers represented in the parliament?


nimh...
Quote:
Fair enough question, though not really an issue in Holland.



http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT260/DCO2043.jpg

Have a nice day, nimh. Enjoy the view.
0 Replies
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 May, 2006 05:22 pm
Immigration, racial and multicultural concerns amongst the British public... ?

Nah, not really an issue in Britain. Only 3% are voting for the BNP....

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/UKStats1.jpg
0 Replies
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 May, 2006 05:32 pm
Disclaimer: yes, I know exactly what you mean, nimh... but anything even vaguely resembling white-washing needs to be stamped upon as being yet another PC exercise in manipulating public perceptions over an issue.

Isn't it just so illuminating of Holland's 40-year suicidal experimentation with re-inventing their society to resemble a patchwork-quilt of Third World tribal communities that the likes of elected representatives such as Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk have to be kept under 24-hour guard to protect them against being murdered by immigrants... ?

That which ye sow - so shall ye reap. Francis is well aware of this. And the Brits know this even more acutely than Francis.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 09:03 am
herberts wrote:
Herbert...
Quote:
In a recent opinion poll of Maurice de Hond, the question was asked, "Do you think Dutch society has lost its identity?"A whopping 61% said yes, 36% said no.

So the question begs: Where are these numbers represented in the parliament?


nimh...
Quote:
Fair enough question, though not really an issue in Holland.


Having a late night or something, Herberts? Normally you're not quite this incapable of reading .

The question you raised (who speaks up for these people) is "not really an issue in Holland", not because those people aren't there (the poll I myself quoted shows they are), but - duuuhhh - because there ARE politicians speaking up for them.

As I wrote, the List Fortuyn is represented in parliament with ample seats, there's Geert Wilders who is quoted in every third report, and of course, there is "Iron" Rita Verdonk, currently heading to be the next leader of the VVD (the country's third-largest party).

Awright?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 09:09 am
herberts wrote:
the likes of elected representatives such as Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk have to be kept under 24-hour guard to protect them against being murdered by immigrants... ?

Then-Green Left leader Paul Rosenmoller was also placed under police protection, together with his family ... after he received death threats by the far-right. Then-Labour leader Ad Melkert was also placed under stringent police protection ... after a far-righter sent him a gun by ways of death threat.
0 Replies
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 06:13 pm
... which in no way refutes the fact that Holland's conservative politicians are in dire jeopardy of their lives from members of their imported Third World Islamic community.

My Dutch friend tells me how he remembers 'way back then' travelling on a train in Holland that was packed full with his fellow-countrymen all bound for the port of embarkation to Australia... and how, at one point, they had stopped at a small way-station for a few minutes where another train was sitting next to them - packed to overflowing with hijab-wearing Muslim families all heading in the opposite direction... Both train-loads just sat in silence and stared at each other... quite surreal.

The Dutch are no less ignorant bloody fools than are the British - and I remind him of this every day just to keep him humble. http://www.xtrememass.com/forum//images/smilies/1214/cooleek3.gif
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 05:43 pm
Oh dear, oh dear...

A while ago, someone asked about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the prolific Somali-Dutch politician and crusader against Islam, who's been so warmly embraced by the rightwing-liberal VVD.

Hirsi Ali is the woman who wrote the provocative film Submission, about the domestic abuse suffered by Muslim women, with director Theo van Gogh - who was later assassinated over the film by an Islamist. She herself is accompanied by bodyguards everywhere she goes because of numerous death threats.

Formerly of the Labour Party, Hirsi Ali accepted the offer of a prominent spot on the VVD list in the 2003 elections because it was the party she felt would most support her in her relentless warnings about the dangers of Islam and Muslim immigration.

The past five years, the VVD has indeed been capitalising again on the resentment against immigrants, asylum-seekers and Muslims, especially through the person of Immigration and Integration Minister "Iron" Rita Verdonk. The party is currently holding a leadership contest, and Verdonk is actually the prime contender to win.

OK. Now -- enter one of the more bizarre news stories of the day...

Quote:
Dutch MP lied to obtain political asylum

Radio Netherlands, 12 May 2006

Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali has admitted she lied to the immigration authorities in the early 1990s in order to obtain political asylum in the Netherlands. The Dutch TV programme Zembla has established that, rather than fleeing the violence and warfare in her land of origin Somalia, as she claimed, she spent more than ten years in reasonable comfort in Kenya before applying for asylum first in Germany and then in the Netherlands. She said she lied because she was afraid of being turned down a second time.

However, she told the leadership of the conservative VVD party the true story when she applied to become a VVD candidate in 2002. The party has confirmed this. Apparently, fellow VVD member Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk recently told her that, if she had been minister at the time and had known the truth, she would have had Ms Hirsi Ali deported.


Quote:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: hero or phony?

Expatica

Dutch Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk claims to be decisive and consistent; she "steers a straight course through the sea". She says her immigration and asylum policies are strict but fair.

Perhaps then the Liberal Party (VVD) minister could tell us the difference between Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Taida Pasic?

Somali-born Hirsi Ali lied when she was 22 in order to get asylum in the Netherlands and improve her life.

Kosovar Taida Pasic, 18, effectively lied to get a tourist visa to re-enter the Netherlands in 2005 to complete the Dutch education she was receiving before her family was refused asylum here.

Verdonk took a personal interest in ensuring Pasic, whom she publicly branded a liar, was deported from the country before she could take her final exams here. She has to do that in Sarajevo, Bosnia.

How decisive and consistent. Verdonk does not like liars, she says, and liars don't get past her immigration officials. Well not now, anyway. Hirsi Ali is a different story.

Verdonk says Hirsi Ali would not have got in to the Netherlands had she been minister at the time. However Hirsi Ali has nothing to fear now despite the porkies she told 14 years ago.

News programme Zembla reported on 11 May that Hirsi Ali hid her actual name, Hirsi Magan, and her age when she sought asylum here in 1992. Immigration officials might otherwise have established she was under the care of the UNHCR in Kenya. She was granted asylum here in a record five weeks. How come?

She told a heart-rending story about having to flee Somalia to escape an arranged marriage, went to a refugee camp in Kenya, and from there got to the Netherlands. Once here, she faced the constant fear of retribution from her angry family. The right story for an asylum seeker. [..]

Hirsi Ali was living in Kenya for over 10 years before coming here and didn't experience five civil wars in Somalia as prominent VVD member and current EU commissioner Nelie Kroes claimed in 2002.

Hirsi Ali said, and the VVD confirms, she told them back then she had lied to the immigration service. Why then did the VVD present Hirsi Ali as a person who survived the turmoil in Somalia? [..]

As she said herself: asylum seekers tend to gild the lily to ensure they get residence permits. Who among us would not have told a few white lies to ensure a better life? [..] But one nagging question remains. Why is this former asylum seeker a member of the same party as Verdonk? This is the minister who wants to deport gays and Christian converts back to Iran. This is the minister who has vowed to keep economic migrants masquerading as refugees from getting into the country.

Why is it OK for Hirsi Ali to lie to make a better life for herself in the Netherlands, but Pasic can't even be allowed to stay a few weeks extra to finish her exams?


Quote:
Liberals don't care Hirsi Ali lied to get asylum in 1992

Expatica
12 May 2006

[..] Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said on Friday that Hirsi Ali need not worry about facing repercussions for what she did 14 years ago. But she repeated she would have deported Hirsi Ali if she had been the minister back in 1992. "I don't like lies," Verdonk said on Friday.

Hirsi Ali shot to fame in 2002 when her criticism of aspects of Islam and the treatment of women in Muslim societies led to death threats. She joined the Dutch Liberal Party (VVD) and was elected to parliament in 2003.

[..] Hirsi Ali said she came clean about the lies she told to get asylum when she joined the Liberal Party (VVD) in 2002. Yet prominent VVDer (and now EU Commissioner) Nelie Kroes described Hirsi Ali as a person who had lived through five civil wars in Somalia. This was not true as Hirsi Ali lived in Kenya for over 10 years before coming to the Netherlands.

A spokesperson for the VVD said the party had been aware that Hirsi Ali lied about her name and date of birth when seeking asylum. This was not seen as a barrier to her joining the party or becoming one of its MPs.

[..] Her real name is Hirsi Magan. Her father was an opponent of the regime in Somalia and was jailed there. Hirsi Ali and her brother were sent to Kenya where she lived from the age of 10 to 22.

Other Somalis living as refugees in Kenya were refused asylum in the Netherlands in 1992 because Kenya was considered a safe country. Hirsi Ali, who had refugee status in Kenya, told Dutch immigration officials she was fleeing from Somali. She was granted asylum within five weeks, an apparent record. [..]
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 06:10 pm
OK, here's what I think about that.

I dont think any less of Hirsi Ali because it turns out she told some white lies in order to get into The Netherlands. I would have done the same.

Her example actually goes to show how those "bogus asylum-seekers", those "luck-seekers" who "prey on the system" that the Dutch (and their politicians foremost) can't stop being indignant about, can include highly intelligent and brave people - people who might, if they got the chance, make prolific contributions to our country, as Hirsi Ali certainly has done. For whatever you think about her agitation against Islam, she is definitely brave and intelligent, and has made a clear mark on Dutch politics and culture - as she will continue to do (her next film is about gays and Islam).

But she's also, then, a "bogus asylum-seeker". Not that she had no valid reason to originally flee from Somalia (her father being an opponent of the regime). But she'd landed in Kenya first, and that's a safe country. We turn people back to the refugee camps there automatically.

This all makes the VVD look extremely hypocritical. They like to posture about being strict and consistent about asylum, and make a lot of political hay fanning hysteria about "luck-seeking" immigrants. Yet they didnt think twice about putting such a bogus asylum-seeker in a top spot on their own list when they saw an opportunity to score. And vice versa, even knowing that one of their own most valued politicians was exactly one of those asylum-seekers who embellished their story, never made them rethink their zero-tolerance asylum/immigration-policies - never made them think twice about sending lots of other "Ayaans" back into Third World poverty today. It stinks whichever way you look at it.

But what about Ayaan herself? I dont think of her less because she told her white lies back then -- it's her standing for the VVD now that makes her look heartless and hypocritical. I mean, afer all: she herself came into the country by embellishing her asylum story. Yet there she is now, standing for the main party today agitating against her fellow-asylum-seekers. She doesnt flinch about backing a party that insists on deporting any asylum-seeker who told any inconsistency in his story - deporting, that is, lots of people who only ever did what she did too.
0 Replies
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 May, 2006 10:01 pm
What a storm in a tea-cup. What a pathetic media beat-up to throw discredit upon one of Holland's leading patriotic parties.

So a high-profile celebrity slipped into the country illegally a whole 14-years ago... big deal. Everyone and his dog has known for yonkers that the 'refugees' bandwagon has been a blatant fraud and a criminal farce with it being little more than a backdoor access to Western nations and their generous welfare systems.

If you want a story to get excited about concerning illegal immigrants then you need look no further than the fact that the UK authorities have admitted to not having a clue as to the whereabouts of approximately half a million[/i] illegals who have gone missing in the British Isles.

Hirsi Ali... ? Give me a break.

(smiley omitted upon request... but please feel free to enjoy this link.. nimh's nemesis)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 May, 2006 08:43 am
herberts wrote:
So a high-profile celebrity slipped into the country illegally a whole 14-years ago... big deal.

And the same "celebrity" is now a top politician for the party raging on about how terrible those people who "slipped into the country illegally" are ... Yeah, those poor sods are criminal liars, who should all be deported back - apart from the one who's on our list and getting lots of votes for us, of course. What hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
herberts
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 May, 2006 05:11 pm
In case you haven't noticed, it's an imperfect world, nimh.

If it's hypocrisy and deceit and betrayal of trust you're looking for then you need look no further than most of the politicians of the Western World of the past 40-years.

Lies and deceit and total contempt for their national electorate has been the order of the day. The bulk of Western politicians have been every bit as deceitful and misleading as was Hirsi Ali those 14-years ago.

In the mid-50's Western politicians told their electorate to vote them into office so they could work for a glorious new future for their national homelands... and here we are, these many years later, witnessing a situation in which from the British Isles to the eastern borders of Europe - and from the southern tip of Italy to the northern townships of Sweden there is a pandemic plague of Muslim-based crime, anti-social delinquency, death-threats upon politicians who require 24-hour protection - and an unemployment rate amongst these imported Middle Easterners and their locally-born offspring which can only be described as something peculiar to their Middle Eastern Islamic mindset.

Every European nation is now groaning with the weight of its social and economic costs and problems which have been incurred by their 40-years of 'experimentation' with the importation of the Islamic hordes and the establishment of official 'multiculturalism' to accommodate the insular attitudes of their Third World immigrant communities.

Pilloring Hirsi Ali for once having practiced a moment of deceit does nothing to distract from the fact that for the last half century Western politicians - including Australians - have been royally stuffing up their own homeland societies with the indiscriminate importation of ethnicities and cultures which are inimical to the social cohesion and traditional character and ethos of their societies.
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2006 06:40 am
The way Ayaan Hirsi Ali is treated by the Dutch public at large and by her own party colleagues is utterly repulsive. Practically all asylum seekers in the 1990s lied on their applications, because the system rewarded embellishments and punished truthfulness (I knew several people from the immigration service, so I know what I am talking about).

Hirsi Ali's lies and the reasons for them were known when she obtained the Dutch nationality, but were not considered a problem since she was a model immigrant: smart, polyglot (also fluent in Dutch) and able and willing to contribute to the society of which she admired the freedom.

Hirsi Ali took a stance against the oppression of freedom by fundamentalist Islam (as in the rights of non-muslims, women and gays), which made her something of a celebrity. She was asked to join the liberal party who hoped to draw lots of votes with her on the list (and they did get into the government). Her lies in her asylum application, I repeat, were well known at the time. What they apparently had not counted on was that the lady was consistent in her views and used her political platform to pursue her ideals of liberty and free speech. Soon enough she was considered a troublemaker in insipid, bourgeois Holland. The burghers simply refused to see that she was defending the basic rights that they took for granted.

When the liberal party had to elect a new leader, some considered that it was open season on anyone who stood out from the crowd. As soon as a TV show had raked up the old story of Hirsi Ali's lies on her asylum request, everyone happily attacked her. She had already been turned out of her house (because the neighbours were afraid she might attract muslim extremists to their street (and the value of their property would fall)), and faced criticism because she had to be protected from terrorists (from our taxmoney!). And if that was not enough, she will now be robbed of her passport and is blamed by extremely brainless Dutch people as responsible for the murder of her friend Theo van Gogh! (Who was reviled by those same people when he still was alive.) It is sickening!!! She has every reason to escape to the US. In fact she is in more danger in the Netherlands now than she ever was in the country where she came from when she applied for asylum!

I am deeply ashamed of the low country where I spent half my life. The narrowminded, wishy washy, namby pamby, don't rock the boat attitude of my dull-witted, hypocritic and cowardly countrymen is as amazing as it is disgusting.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 May, 2006 09:51 am
Paaskynen wrote:
I am deeply ashamed of the low country where I spent half my life. The narrowminded [..] attitude of my dull-witted, hypocritic and cowardly countrymen is as amazing as it is disgusting.

Amen to that.

For those who havent followed the story, here's an update I emailed out.

----------------------

Developments around Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch filmmaker, author and MP who is best known for her strident stances against Islam, have rushed on at breathtaking pace the last four days, so I'll summarise.

The whole story is grotesque, and at the same time manages to involve a whole range of current developments and issues about Dutch society.
0 Replies
 
SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 06:47 am
Dutch Courage
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 May, 2006 06:02 pm
nimh wrote:
The past five years, the VVD has indeed been capitalising again on the resentment against immigrants, asylum-seekers and Muslims, especially through the person of Immigration and Integration Minister "Iron" Rita Verdonk. The party is currently holding a leadership contest, and Verdonk is actually the prime contender to win.


nimh wrote:
Developments around Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch filmmaker, author and MP who is best known for her strident stances against Islam, have rushed on at breathtaking pace the last four days [..]

Initially, the response from her party, the VVD, to the TV broadcast that revealed how she had made up a story in order to get asylum in the Netherlands fourteen years ago, was that it presented no new facts. [..]

The issue raised uncomfortable questions for the party, however. The VVD is the most prolific proponent in the Netherlands of a zero-tolerance policy regarding asylum-seekers [..] Soon, [..] List Fortuyn MP Nawijn [..] demanded an inquest into Hirsi Ali's Dutch citizenship. Having received asylum on a lie, she should never have been allowed to subsequently apply for and receive citizenship.

In response, Immigration Minister Verdonk, currently running for VVD leadership in party primaries, reversed her stance and ordered such an investigation. In fact, she declared to parliament that, based on current information, Hirsi Ali "is supposed to not have received Dutch citizenship". An investigation into her citizenship could ultimately lead to Hirsi Ali being deported.

Hirsi Ali has reacted with bafflement, telling reporters, "have they gone mad?". Having already planned to move to the US next year, she in turn declared that she would resign from parliament and leave already in September.

Whoooooo!! There's news!! Lemme build up the suspense a bit.

"Iron" Rita Verdonk was indeed the prime contender in a leadership contest of the VVD party, to be decided in a vote among all party members, who could vote by mail or electronically.

Verdonk had pitted herself against Mark Rutte, a more consensus-oriented, socially liberal representative of the party's "purple" wing, who had initially been parachuted as the prospective new leader by the top of the party.

Verdonk portrayed Rutte as a waverer, a centrist, a mere boy; herself, the resolute, steadfast bulwark of no-nonsense (immigration) law and order. She employed the campaign team who'd first launched Pim Fortuyn, and presented herself as the outsider, the woman who'd speak up for the common (Dutch) man. To bolster her insurrectionist credentials, her campaign team demanded "election observers" at the ballot count at party HQ.

The party elite was indeed somewhat alarmed at the prospect of her taking over, and various grandees portrayed her as too much of a loose canon, a populist, someone who'd be unable to broker allies needed in a government coalition. Rutte, instead, was the erudite wonderboy, the versatile professional. The only grandee to support Verdonk was former leader and European Commissioner Frits Bolkestein.

For a party-internal contest, it was bloody, far harsher than the leadership "primary" of the Labour Party in 2002, which had been the first such undertaking ever by one of the main Dutch parties.

The polls soon gave Verdonk a commanding majority. Among VVD-voters, she quickly led Rutte almost 2:1. She also was shown to have massive support among the far-right voters of the List Fortuyn and Geert Wilders, and at the same time a greater appeal to Christian-Democrat cross-over voters than Rutte. The polls, in fact, continuously showed that a Verdonk-led VVD would get 10 seats (or 7%) more in the next elections than one led by Rutte; a sizable bonus for a party that got 19% in the last elections.

Then the Ayaan Hirsi Ali affair blew up. Verdonk wavered, then firmly took a stance that she assumed would be popular among the common man: no nonsense, rules are rules, Hirsi Ali should be treated like anyone else.

Politically, it backfired. Practically unanimously, the parties in Parliament fell over her, and demanded assurances that she would ensure citizenship for Ali after all. When she reluctantly agreed but afterwards implied at a campaign meeting that she'd stick to her guns, the Cabinet and Prime Minister himself carpeted her and put her on warning that they'd check her every move now.

Rutte, meanwhile, managed to say as little as possible about the entire affair throughout.

Hirsi Ali gave her press conference. The response was overwhelming; the Dutch are not only cowardly as Paaskynen pointed out, but also fickle. Within two days, the polls tipped over. Suddenly, not the leftwing broadcasters who'd screened the Ali report were blamed, but Verdonk. And Ali should be given citizenship, period. Verdonk's odds at the leadership seemed to melt.

But the Dutch are fickle, I said. The 5-6 seats loss that pollsters momentarily registered for the VVD were gone again by the end of the week. Verdonk's numbers, too, recovered partially within a week, and more substantially still in the next.

By ballot closing time, last week, Verdonk again had an impressive lead on Rutte among VVD-voters and right-wing voters generally. Again, polls showed the same sizable electoral bonus if VVD members would choose for her. Again, speculation was rife; just yesterday, the country's largest newspaper, itself never shy of some rightwing rabblerousing, loudly headlined the risk of a government crisis if Verdonk would win.

I was pretty sure she'd win, but the only hope I held out was the thought that the pollsters had asked VVD-voters; but the only ones eligible to cast their ballot were the VVD-members. And there's only 40,000 of those; three-quarter of whom voted.

The interviews and news reports had already showed: the higher someone was in the VVD, the more likely he was to support Rutte instead. Of the VVD MP's, aldermen and mayors too, the sympathy for the less polarising Rutte, who'd campaign on the economy rather than migration, was palpable, in marked contrast with the mood among VVD-voters at large. Which way would active members veer? And the 'sleeping' ones who'd normally only ever send in their annual membership fee?

Tada... And the result is!

Mark Rutte ... 51%
Rita Verdonk ... 46%
Jelleke Veenendaal ... 3%

Rutte wins!

In a multi-party system like Holland's, this has gravitating effects for the whole political "ecosystem". If Verdonk had won, the centrist-liberal Democrats66 would have gone up on the polls. Now that Rutte has won, the far-right groups around Geert Wilders and other Fortuynists will suddenly open up again. If Verdonk had won, the VVD's only chance to continue in government would have been fighting a hard-right campaign and hoping to squeek through a narrow majority with the Christian-Democrats after all. Now, the VVD can possibly, in the long term at least, even start speculating on a renewed "purple" experiment with Labour again.

But what a small margin. If 800 votes had gone to Verdonk rather than Rutte, the balance would have tilted the other way.

800 votes ... that means Ayaan Hirsi Ali, also VVD, and so quickly sacrificed by Verdonk when the media lit the fire - it might well have been her fate that made the difference, after all - despite the polls.

Something, at least, for her to be glad about, I'm sure.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 May, 2006 06:27 pm
A pic...

Veenendaal, Verdonk and Rutte.

http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00063/rutte_63413e.jpg
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jun, 2006 05:52 pm
Labour Party leader Wouter Bos used a rather archaic word last week: "godsvrede". My Dutch-English dictionary doesnt have it, and the online Dutch-English dics are crap. Literally it means "peace of God", but it denotes more the mutual respect of groups in society of each others religion - as in, you leave it well enough alone (at peace). Just like you dont disturb "domestic peace", you dont disturb "religious peace"; to each his own. He who doesn't harm third parties with his own convictions, should not be harmed in them himself. Something like that.

In Flanders it is used more, and in a broader sense of tolerance for divergent convictions in general - like, that you can co-operate, anyway. Unfortunately, the word is also closely connotated with the Flemish independence cause, something Bos must have overlooked. (I am guessing he simply thought "religious tolerance" sounded too soft, and since he was discussing the matter with the leader of the small, dour Christian Union, he had looked for a word that better fit his counterpart's discourse.)

Anyway. This was what Bos was saying (and I'll translate "godsvrede" with "religious tolerance"):

Quote:
Bos: CDA puts religious tolerance at risk

Trouw [a mainstream Christian newspaper]
1 June 2006

Labour Party leader Bos thinks the Christian-Democratic CDA puts the relationship between the secular majority and religious minorities in our society at risk.

He attributes this to internal division among the Christian-Democrats in the integration debate and Islamophobia on the part of parliamentary CDA-leader Verhagen.

"If religious tolerance in the Netherlands is faltering, this is because of the uncertainty in the heart of christian politics", said Bos yesterday in a debate with Christian Union-leader Rouvoet about the role of religion in the public sphere. According to Bos, his party has no urge to disturb religious tolerance. "I believe in a pluriform society with spiritual liberty for the different [religious] convictions. In the CDA I discern trouble with pluriformity, because many Christian-Democrats have problems with Islam."

The Islam-fear of the CDA parliamentary party has led, according to Bos, to it now having become almost impossible to found Muslim schools and to Parliament having declared itself in favour of a ban on the burqa. "I don't think it's strange that the Social-Democrats have voted against that ban, I do think it's strange that the Christian-Democrats are finishing off freedom of religion", he said.

Within the CDA, according to the Labour Party-leader, Minister of Justice Donner as classic defender of basic rights and parliamentary party leader Verhagen with his fear of Islam are standing directly opposite each other. He placed Prime Minister Balkenende in between the two, because he takes the responsibility for the tough integration and immigration policies of VVD-Minister Verdonk. "It is still unclear who will win this fight", said Bos.

Rouvoet too, said he was unhappy with the course the CDA was steering in the question of integration, because it does not testify of essential tolerance towards minorities of different convictions.

Now Bos's main argument, especially on the burqa ban, here is rather weak. Does a ban on the burqa endanger religious freedom? That is at least debatable. Even if it does, there can easily be an argument that the encroachment is minor or even marginal, whereas tolerating the burqa brings a larger set of problems (people literally making themselves invisible and uncommunicatable towards other groups) that partly equally involve questions of basic rights (protection of women).

What is more interesting in his ruminations is the split he discerns within Christian-Democracy on this theme. There he has a point. The CDA initially long remained on the forefront of the right to found Muslim schools, even when its rightwing-liberal government partner VVD started assailing it. There is an obvious reason for that: half or more of the schools in the Netherlands are Protestant or Catholic. The right of schools founded and organised on the basis of religious conviction is enshrined in the Constitution, and it is fundamental for the Christian-Democrats not to see that rattled with. At the same time, of course, Islam is The Other Religion, the enemy and the competitor, and as such more Wrong with a capital W than it is for secular people.

Holland is a secular society, so basically two instincts tear the Christian-Democrats in different directions here: solidarity with other religious people, faced with a sometimes stridently secular society; and the religious aversion towards the believers of a different god, a different holy book - and the one that Christians have had the harshest history with, at that.

Interesting in this context is the position of the small, fundamentalist-Protestant Christian Union. It clearly stakes out a position where Muslims are mostly defended as fellow-religionists, whose rights should be protected. That in turn brings an underlying 'geography' to the fore; the split among Christian-Democrats that is hinted at here is largely that between Reformed Protestants from the north and centre of the Netherlands, and Catholics, from the South. The CDA is the result of a merger, in the late 70s, of separate Protestant and Catholic parties.

Thus, in the readers' responses, one poster with the screenname notrightwing-butdefinitelynotleftwing picks up on Bos's point this way:

Quote:
I dont often agree with Bos, but I can assent in his criticism of Verhagen. Maxime Verhagen is a representative of conservative catholicism and comes from the KVP [Catholic People's Party]. Comparable with the CSU in Bavaria, say. Nothing Christian about it, just rigid conservatism and cultural christianity. He represents, the way I see it, a totally different current than [Prime Minister] Balkenende who, with his reformed background and knowledge of christian-social thought, at least knows how it should be done. With a Catholic from the south on top my vote, in any case, definitely doesn't go to the CDA. It will be Rouvoet [of the Christian Union] then, after all.


Meanwhile, of course, while doing an interesting bit of needling within the Christian-Democratic camp with excursions like this, Bos also scores an own goal. After all, in so doing he appears to confirm the most derisive stereotypes of Labour as "the party of the Arabs", more interested in sticking up for Muslims and such than in making sure the cultural cacaphony in working class neighbourhoods remains workable. This, then, is the typical readers reaction to that:

Quote:
Isn't it enough to make you cry to high heaven that a socialist party is against a ban on the burqa! And that just to get into the favour of the Muslim voter, under the motto, if we are just really tolerant, it'll all turn out ok still.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Jun, 2006 11:07 am
From the Chicago Tribune, (online Mid-West) version, Sunday June 18, 2006, section 2, page 1 and 2:

Quote:
The whiff of xenophobia in Europe
By Frida Ghitis


They dodge the oncoming bicycle traffic of Turkish, Indonesian, Surinamese and other commuters of every age, color and nationality, who pedal with their heads down, shielding their eyes from the raw North Sea wind.

This is Linnaeus Street, the scene of a gruesome turning point in this nation's modern history. Here, in November 2004, a radical Islamist who was the son of Moroccan immigrants murdered controversial Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh. With that act he added caustic fuel to the immigration debate.

On both sides of the Atlantic, immigration has taken a top spot on the roster of national priorities. The political maneuvering, tense debate and nervousness over what this discussion says about the national character permeate the arguments in Europe and in America.

Yet the fundamental fears Americans wrestle with differ sharply from the concerns Europeans express.

Americans' principal worry is economics. Most immigrants enter the U.S. looking for jobs. Low-skilled workers, millions of them undocumented, take low-wage jobs, driving down incomes for the poor, while providing employers with cheap labor.

In Europe, economics plays
See page 2
page 2

EUROPE: Integration at crux of discussion
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jun, 2006 03:10 pm
It was all a mistake and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-born former lawmaker known for her criticism of fundamentalist Islam, can retain her Dutch citizenship after all.
Netherlands Reverses Stance on Lawmaker
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jun, 2006 05:48 pm
Hi all. Those who have been following this thread know already, I'm sure: the case Ayaan Hirsi Ali has led to the fall of the Dutch government last night.

But first the resolution of Ayaan's citizenship question. This article had a good overview:

Somali-Born Politician Allowed to Stay a Dutch Citizen

OK, now the government crisis. This is the best and most correct/comprehensive of the six or seven foreign-press accounts I've read about it:

NYT: Dispute Over Minister Topples Dutch Government

But if you havent kept up and you're wondering who this Ayaan Hirsi Ali was again in the first place, this article contains the clearest characterisation:

Dutch government falls in row over MPs passport
0 Replies
 
 

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