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Anti-Muslim Dutch politicians in hiding after death threats

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 03:06 pm
Quote:
Dutch government passes new terror bill

Associated Press


THE HAGUE, Netherlands - The Dutch government approved a new terrorism bill Friday that grants law-enforcement authorities far-reaching powers of investigation and allowing them to hold suspects for up to two weeks without charges.

The measure, which still must be passed by parliament, would allow intelligence agents to use currently banned techniques such as infiltrating terror cells for undercover operations and telephone taps, a Justice Ministry statement said. They will also be allowed to use entrapment tactics, such as bogus sales transactions.

"There also will be more possibilities to gather information, detain suspects and conduct preventive public searches," it said. "The events in Amsterdam and The Hague have made clear that wider powers to prevent terrorism are desirable."

The ministry was referring to the Nov. 2 killing of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, whose throat was slit allegedly by a young Muslim radical who associated with a suspected terrorist cell.

In The Hague a few days after the murder, terrorist suspects wounded several policemen during a botched arrest attempt. Two young men holed up in a residential neighborhood for a day before surrendering.

The new law also lowers the level of proof needed to hold a suspect believed to be plotting terrorist activity, said Justice Ministry spokesman Wibbe Alkema.

The problem in the past, Alkema said, has been insufficient grounds to detain someone who could be preparing an attack. If the law is passed, authorities will have more time - up to two weeks - to build a case and bring charges.

"In the initial stage of custody, there will no longer need to be serious suspicion, but only a reasonable doubt," he said. "That could be someone who is believed to be involved with a network that has been under observation for some time."

One such case is that of Samir Azzouz, an 18-year-old Dutch Muslim on trial for allegedly plotting bombings of prominent Dutch landmarks.

Prosecutors will be able to approve the use of spot searches of people and cars in public places that could be potential targets, such as an airport or a sports stadium, if there is suspicion of an attack plot.
Source
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 03:15 pm
As has been so often said necessity is the mother of invention. I suppose the Dutch have discovered that you must fight fire with fire. A kid glove approach in today's environment simply does not cut it.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 09:13 am
"60 Minutes" is going to report on the case tonight, Sunday, and show part of the film, Submission.

In Hirsi Ali's words to "60 Minutes'" Morley Safer:
"By not making 'Submission Part Two,' I would only be helping terrorists believe that if they use violence, they are rewarded with what they want."

Her courage leaves me speechless. Almost.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/11/60minutes/main679609.shtml
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 10:49 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:


Associated Press

THE HAGUE, Netherlands - The Dutch government approved a new terrorism bill Friday that grants law-enforcement authorities far-reaching powers of investigation and allowing them to hold suspects for up to two weeks without charges.



And the Dutch are still trying Slobodan Milosevic in the Hague for trying to protect HIS country from the selfsame ****. Pretty amazing.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:16 am
gungasnake wrote:

And the Dutch are still trying Slobodan Milosevic in the Hague for trying to protect HIS country from the selfsame ****.



It is the "International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in The Hague"

b) Tribunal's structure

President: Claude Jorda (France)
Vice-president: Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumna (Zambia)
Three presiding judges: David Anthony Hunt (Australia), Richard May (United Kingdom), Almiro Simoes Rodrigues (Portugal)


Chief Prosecutor: Carla Del Ponte (Switzerland)
Deputy Chief Prosecutor Graham Blewitt (Australia).

As far as I know, none of the other judges and/or prosecutors is Dutch.

Although that wouldn't change a lot on the character of that tribunal, do you have otherwise information?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:34 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:


Although that wouldn't change a lot on the character of that tribunal, do you have otherwise information?


Just what I read, which is that Milosevic is on trial in Holland for trying to protect Yugoslavia from albanian terrorists and a political organization which is basically a branch of AlQuaeda.

Actually, if you read the new testament much you notice there were several categories of people Jesus didn't seem to like, and hypocrites were pretty much at the top of that list.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:37 am
Oh, you really must read good stuff!

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Again, just to clear it: this court in The Hague is the first international war court since Nuremberg and Tokoyo, established in 1993.

IT IS NO DUTCH INSTITUTION.

Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic faces three indictments at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, one relating to atrocities carried out in Kosovo in 1999, another for crimes in Croatia between 1991 and 1992, and the third - and most serious - alleging genocide in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 12:47 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Oh, you really must read good stuff!

Shocked Shocked Shocked

Again, just to clear it: this court in The Hague is the first international war court since Nuremberg and Tokoyo, established in 1993.

IT IS NO DUTCH INSTITUTION.

Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic faces three indictments at the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia, one relating to atrocities carried out in Kosovo in 1999, another for crimes in Croatia between 1991 and 1992, and the third - and most serious - alleging genocide in Bosnia between 1992 and 1995.


The institution might not be Dutch; nonetheless it is on Dutch soil.

The only atrocities committed in Kosovo in 1999 were committed by NATO personnel.

An idea of the nature of the earlier charges and of how much weight a reasonable person might want to give them can be viewed (amongst other places) here:

http://new-millennium.netfirms.com/Demons.html

The Dutch are engaging in gross hypocrisy by allowing this travesty to take place on their soil.

I've got a sort of a short list of things I'd pay a hundred dollars to watch.

As of today, with the idea of Arnold Schwarzenegger telling the dufe (Grey Dark-age Davis) out there in California he's been terminated off the list (because it actually happened), one of the things at the top of that list would be watching the Spetznaz rescue Milosevic.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2005 06:26 am
gungasnake wrote:
The institution might not be Dutch; nonetheless it is on Dutch soil.

Yes. But what matters to the nature and the legitimacy of the trial is who created the court, and perhaps who the justices are. So in all terms that matter, this is court has little to do with "the Dutch". The court would follow the same procedures and reach the same conclusions no matter whose soil it was on.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 02:48 pm
OT - just wanted to share this rather "cool" photo Smile

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050302/capt.ams10703021529.netherlands_ams107.jpg

A snowman holding a can of beer sits on a bench in Vondelpark, in the center of Amsterdam, Netherlands, Tuesday March 2, 2005. According to the Dutch Weather Service the Netherlands was hit by the heaviest snowfall in 20 years, causing schools in the north of the country to close and disrupting traffic. (AP Photo/Peter Dejong)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 02:50 pm
Yep it was quite pretty JW! <smiles>
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2005 03:07 pm
There's so much stuff appearing relating to this subject/theme - every day a handful of articles in every paper - hard to keep track. I sometimes make notes of things I see in the paper, jotting down the title to 'come back to', or cutting out the article and putting it in my (hardly ever opened) 'interesting for A2K' folder .. there's just no place to begin.

OK, one anecdote. I went to see The House of Flying Daggers in cinema THC the other week. It had moved/unsettled me somewhat, and afterwards I was having a cup of tea, trying to settle down. But it didn't work. The newest movie out was Theo van Gogh's posthumously released film about Pim Fortuyn - now there's an explosive combo for you. And right across from me, the entire wall left to right was filled with a poster every meter for the movie: Pim's head in black contour, against a red backdrop. His chin resting on his hand in that typical gesture of his, his bald head recognizable out of a thousand. A red circled bullet hole drawn on his temple.

This is the note I later found back that I had scribbled on my movie ticket - and it was only later that I realised the subliminal power this repeated image right in front of me had exerted:

Quote:
The longer ago the 90s are, the better they seem.
First they pull up ever more of these
ugly people, who get to storm around
spouting hate & chaos, and then they
get f*cking MURDERED! In this country!
What kind of sick video game is
this!? What happened to my
f*cking country!
The sick f*cks.


-------------

Apparently, I wasn't the only person who reacted badly. This was in the newspaper a couple of days later:

Quote:
Few visitors latest Van Gogh

AMSTERDAM-The latest movie of the assassinated director Theo van Gogh, '06/05', seems to be flopping. In the opening weekend 3000 people saw the movie, on 23 screens.

Internet provider Tiscali sold '06/05', which centres on a proposed complot behind the murder of Pim Fortuyn, over the Internet in December. Several thousand people then paid five euro for the digital version and illegal copies appeared quickly. Yet according to Tiscali, that is no explanation for the limited number of cinema visitors.

Producer Gijs van de Westelaken considers the visitor tally not too low for "an arthouse cinema movie".

Van Gogh himself still said in his last video diary about the recording of the movie: "This is such a beautiful movie that I think: this life is worth living".
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Mar, 2005 09:12 pm
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20050324/capt.sge.axh25.240305173233.photo00.photo.default-377x243.jpg

A boy runs through rows of tulips in the Netherlands. The tulip mania of the 17th century has grown into one of Holland's largest industries contributing almost 2.0 percent to the Dutch gross domestic product and employing some 20,000 people excluding seasonal workers.

(Couldn't resist. The colors are so pretty.)
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 04:37 pm
Anger over Dutch expulsion plans.

Quote:
Mrs Verdonk said the Netherlands was not a land of milk and honey for those who couldn't make a living elsewhere.


Somehow, I don't think we'll ever hear President Bush expressing similar sentiments.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2005 11:02 pm
JustWonders wrote:


Somehow, I don't think we'll ever hear President Bush expressing similar sentiments.


Quote:
USA
Area:
total: 9,631,418 sq km
land: 9,161,923 sq km
water: 469,495 sq km

Population
295,734,134 (July 2005 est.)


Quote:
Netherlands
Area:
total: 41,526 sq km
land: 33,883 sq km
water: 7,643 sq km

Population:
16,407,491 (July 2005 est.)


Source for both: CIA - The World Factbook
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2005 12:54 am
Quote:
In the footsteps of Fortuyn

Geert Wilders, the scourge of Dutch liberalism, is determined to make race the key issue in the EU referendum campaign. Stephen Castle meets a politician with a price on his head

20 May 2005


He has spent months sleeping behind bars in a former army camp, travels in an armour-plated car and has up to six bodyguards. The Netherlands' most controversial and vocal critic of Islam has been in hiding since receiving dozens of death threats, including one offering 72 virgins in paradise to any Muslim who beheads him.

But, to the alarm of many Dutch liberals, Geert Wilders is back, just in time for a referendum that has implications for the whole of Europe. Although for security reasons details are vague, Holland's newest, anti-immigration populist will probably use his home town of Venlo to start a national tour promoting a "no" vote in the Dutch poll on the European constitution.

The referendum - the first in the Netherlands for 200 years - will take place on 1 June, just three days after a likely knife-edge vote in France. If both countries reject the treaty, it will become a dead letter.

Three years after Pim Fortuyn, the anti-immigration campaigner, was gunned down and six months after the murder of Theo Van Gogh, another outspoken critic of Islam, Mr Wilders wants race to dominate the campaign.

In an spacious meeting room in the heart of The Hague, the press conference to launch the comeback seems like any other low-key meeting in the Dutch parliament. Only the two bodyguards - the Wilders team calls them gorillas - hint at the fact that this is Holland's best-protected man, staying by his side even in these secure surroundings. With his youthful features and white hair, Mr Wilders, 41, cuts an unusual figure, his hairdo probably styled on that of Bill Clinton but more reminiscent of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

He is sitting in front of two large posters bearing his own image and in front of another banner with the name of his party: Groep Wilders. If ever there were a one-man band, this is it. Joining the group could get you on a death list, so potential supporters are invited to make anonymous donations instead. The press officer does not want to be named in print or to give out his mobile phone number.

Mr Wilders has spent much of the past few months sleeping in a barred room at Camp Zeist, the former army barracks which was used for the Lockerbie trial, seeing his wife only a couple of times a week. Although he is no longer sleeping behind bars, he says: "My security situation has not changed, not for the better anyway. But I am a politician. That is why I insisted on having a bus tour throughout every province of the Netherlands."

Much of the cost of the event will be met from public funds with €40,000 (£27,500) coming from a €1m pot earmarked to the "yes" and "no" campaigns.

Some of his message would be familiar to British Eurosceptics. The EU, Mr Wilders says, is on the way to becoming an "inefficient superstate", manipulated by "Brussels cliques"; the Wilders plan is to "reduce its talks by 90 per cent so we can reduce our contributions by 90 per cent". His slogan "The Netherlands should stay" is artful; a statement with which no Dutch citizen could disagree, it suggests that the European constitution poses a sinister, but undefined, threat. Meanwhile it hints at his other main theme: the fear of being swamped by immigrants.

Mr Wilders has described Islam as a "backward" religion incompatible with democracy and split with his previous party, the VVD centre-right liberals, over their failure to oppose Turkish accession to the EU.

Though there is no non-white face at this press conference, the issue of race dominates proceedings. Asylum and immigration policy forms only a tiny part of the European constitution, and Turkish accession is not addressed, but Mr Wilders thinks they will be decisive.

"This referendum is about sovereignty and immigration", he says. His argument is that the constitution apportions voting weight in part according to nation's populations, thereby making Turkey potentially the most powerful nation in the EU.

Unlike the UK, the Netherlands has no opt out from justice and home affairs policies and will lose its veto in several areas. This, Mr Wilders says, means that the Dutch could be forced to give legal status to illegal immigrants - to adopt the "terrible policies" of countries such as Spain.

The argument is emotive, almost certainly incorrect and based on a scenario which is politically inconceivable. But simplistic messages work.

Mr Wilders wants to halt all immigration from non-Western countries completely for five years, set strict quotas for asylum-seekers, and to offer financial incentives for non-white immigrants to go home. "In Britain your Conservatives lost the election because they didn't use immigration enough," Mr Wilders tells The Independent.

How has a maverick such as Mr Wilders come to exercise such influence in a country once a model of tolerance and political correctness?

For years Holland was governed under the so-called "polder model" with differences submerged as consensual coalition government did deals with unions and other interest groups. While this delivered wealth it also denied voters real choice, a deficiency exploited by Mr Fortuyn, a maverick gay academic turned politician. Mr Fortuyn derided Islam as a backward religion for its demonisation of homosexuality and called for immigration to stop under the slogan "the Netherlands is full".

Three years ago this month Pim Fortuyn was shot dead outside a radio station by a white animal rights activist, his death sparking an extraordinary outpouring of public emotion.

After Fortuyn's assassination, his political party became the second largest force in Dutch politics, though it soon collapsed, leaderless, back into relative obscurity.

Then last year came another equally shocking murder - that of Theo Van Gogh, a descendant of the painter and a professional controversialist. The Dutch are renowned for their plain speaking but even by their standards, Mr Van Gogh's language was extreme. He once called Muslims "goat fuckers" in print. But it was his film Submission, chronicling the abuse of women under Islam, that provided the pretext for his grisly murder. This crime, committed in broad daylight in Amsterdam, provoked more repulsion, particularly when it was revealed that a letter explaining the murder had been impaled with knives on his chest.

Lousewies van der Laan, an MP for the liberal Democraten 66 (D66) Party, argues that beneath the surface social and economic changes have bred massive uncertainty. "People have had to get used to so many different aspects of globalisation. Five years ago police didn't carry guns. Now there have been two political murders. It all adds up to new insecurities," she argues.

While Dutch attitudes to multiculturalism have shifted, so too has enthusiasm for the EU. In Brussels officials hark back to the days when the Netherlands, one of the EU's six founders, was a solid proponent of European integration. Now its position at the negotiating table is unpredictable because its internal politics are so volatile. The Dutch resent their status as the highest net contributors per head to the EU. They have been infuriated by the row over the euro's rule book, the so-called stability and growth pact; while the Dutch obeyed the pact, the Germans and French ignored it and got away with it, giving the impression that large and small nations play by different rules.

How this will impact on the referendum remains unclear. The "no" campaign in the Netherlands is deeply fragmented. Most opponents of the constitution come from the far left and argue that the document enshrines free-market values that undermine the European social model. They want nothing to do with Mr Wilders.

The "yes" campaign has big problems too. The Socialist Party backs the constitution but is wary of being too closely identified with the campaign for fear of being associated with a losing endeavour. They do not want to be tarred with the same brush as Jan Peter Balkenende, the Christian Democrat Prime Minister. Last week the government released its first official poll predicting "no", with 40 per cent opposed to the constitution and 35 per cent in favour. This has spread alarm among ministers.

Ms Van der Laan, a prominent "yes" campaigner, points out that a large percentage of the electorate remains undecided. He says: "It is the first referendum in 200 years and everything that can go wrong with a referendum will go wrong. Rather than voting on the constitution people will vote on Turkey's entry to the EU, the Dutch contribution to the EU - which everyone knows ours is the highest per capita. They may also protest over the introduction of the euro, which, because the guilder was undervalued, created inflation, and register discontent with the government."

Sitting at a café table opposite the parliament, Bart Woord, takes a series of calls on his mobile phone, gleaning snippets of intelligence about Mr Wilders' tour. Today he plans to trail the maverick anti-immigration campaigner in a caravan, spreading the pro-European message. Mr Woord, the vice-president of the Jonge Democraten, describes Mr Wilders as a "polarising" influence "focusing on fear about the loss of sovereignty and fear that there are more immigrants". He adds: "We are worried that people will use the wrong arguments and say 'no'."

Mr Woord then pays his opponent an unexpected compliment, contrasting his willingness to tour the country - while under a death threat - to the apathy of many politicians advocating a "yes". "Sometimes," says Mr Woord, "I feel a little alone, a bit of a voice in the desert." Never has there been a more urgent case for the "yes" campaign to get out and make a case which has largely gone by default. With three weeks to go, the pro-Europeans have been warned that they have a lot of work yet to do to avert an upset in a country that once backed European integration by instinct.

Ms Van der Laan argues: "I hold the politicians of the past to blame. You have to explain what you are doing and why. You can't just write a constitution - you have to sell it. A lot of people want to teach a lesson to those arrogant politicians. On Europe, four decades of maintenance has not been done. This train was running for 40 years and now we are asking people to hop on board. Instead people are looking for the emergency break because they don't know where it is going."
Source
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2005 07:13 am
*snip*

The backlash against Hirsi Ali has astonished and disappointed many Dutch feminists, who continue to count themselves among her biggest fans. Margreet Fogteloo, editor of the weekly De Groene Amsterdammer, said flatly that Mak is crazy. "People like him feel guilty because they were closing their eyes for such a long time to what was going on," she said. In what appears to be a Europe-wide pattern, some feminists are aligning themselves with the anti-immigrant right against their former multiculturalist allies on the left. Joining them in this exodus to the right are gay activists, who blame Muslim immigrants for the rising number of attacks on gay couples.

*snip*

Source
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:52 pm
<BOOKMARK>

JW, your photographs remind me of our trip to Amsterdam and the tulip festival. Unbelievably gorgeous.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 07:07 am
Diane -- I hope you took lots of pictures.

A trip I'd planned to Amsterdam with friends (for a rock concert of all things LOL) several years ago got cancelled due to scheduling reasons, but it's still high on my 'list' of places to visit.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jul, 2005 07:09 am
Dutch Draft Law to Monitor Imams' Sermons

I'm curious. If there's nothing to hide, then why would they think they need 'to go underground' as Awlad suggests?
0 Replies
 
 

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