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In interesting read on the future of the Republican Party

 
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 12:55 pm
Fedral wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:

The main strength of the Republican Party over the years has always been our unity. Even when we VEHEMENTLY disagree with each other in private, we tend to settle those differences in private before stepping out together and showing a united front.

I may disagree with John and Roy on the topic of abortion, but we find common ground on protection of the 2nd Amendment. Roy may be vehemently against gay marriage, yet even though John and I don't see what the big deal is, we are not going to shun or try to change a fixed mind, we just find common ground with Roy on SS and welfare reform. We speak, we debate and we compromise before setting our key topics and values out for all to see as a united front.

The one thing myself and many of my fellow Republicans have spoken about over drinks and laughed somewhat nervously is the possibility that someday, the Democrats will find a way to quit fighting among themselves long enough to present a similar unity. The day they manage to do that, they will be very dangerous.


You may be right about Republican "unity," but I am certainly not the only former Republican that has now found himself partyless. Unity is a virtue only up to a point. Over the last few years, I have found that the best way to destroy an ideal is to defy it while raising its banner--thus stifling dissent by citing "loyalty." With respect to the libertarian ideals you uphold, I fear the GOP is doing this exact thing--killing what it touts. Cutting taxes is only one small part of free-market ideals, and it cannot exist without a reduction in the government engine and entitlements. My suspicion (founded in policy) is that tax-cuts have become ideologically independent from ideals of fiscal responsibility in the GOP--it is no longer part of a package, but a policy ideal severed from reality and believed to be self-sufficient. Subsidies and pork have run amok in the GOP--and expensive wars are fought without seeking new revenue or cutting spending in other areas. Furthermore, the dominant social policies of the GOP hardly match libertarian ideals (yes, in a period where the GOP has controlled Congress and the White House?-no excuses).

Unfortunately, many staunch Republicans harbor the exact same feelings that you describe in your last paragraph. They are more afraid that their party will lose than that their ideals will be crushed under their own heels. Is this the right way to treat a political party, like a sports team--go team go, win, win, win? Our great country was founded on dissent and loyalty to ideals, not to parties. A party that says "free-market" and enacts protectionism, entitlements, and pork barrel projects is not my own. I, like you, also lean towards social liberalism (although I'm pro-life), and I see nothing of the sort in the GOP. Unfortunately, loyalty to a party is the opposite of loyalty to ideals when the two conflict. I, for one, am a very loyal man, which is why I voted Bush in 2000, but not in 2004. I hope the next four years are successful, but as Bush has said "fool me once, shame on you…fool me…fool me twice…uhhh…can't be fooled again." Where is the GOP headed these days?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 01:03 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
Magus wrote:
Only cheerleaders, ideologues and demagogues try to describe a neck-and-neck race as a blowout.

A 2 or 3% margin is not a "mandate"... unless you have a warped perspective.


Didn't you say this about 8 posts ago? Were you trying to add more to the discussion, or do you just like typing the word "mandate"?


try mandate n.) command, order, injunction, directive, instructions, commandment, writ, direction, bidding, behest, summons, dictate, charge, commission, warrant, license, authorization.
0 Replies
 
Magus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:47 pm
"Whatever you say."

The 2/3 majority agreement required to over-ride a veto... is much more so a qualified "mandate".

A piddling 2 or 3 percent majority is just a hairline victory; considering the potential flaws and faults that attend the execution of an election (i.e., Florida, 2000), the "margin of error" usually exceeds the 2 or 3% that so many goose-steppers are crowing so enthusiastically about.

My advice to the brownshirt thugs... enjoy your day in the sun.
It will likely be brief, and then the pendulum will swing... very likely to OVER-correct.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:45 pm
Magus wrote:
"Whatever you say."

The 2/3 majority agreement required to over-ride a veto... is much more so a qualified "mandate".

A piddling 2 or 3 percent majority is just a hairline victory; considering the potential flaws and faults that attend the execution of an election (i.e., Florida, 2000), the "margin of error" usually exceeds the 2 or 3% that so many goose-steppers are crowing so enthusiastically about.

My advice to the brownshirt thugs... enjoy your day in the sun.
It will likely be brief, and then the pendulum will swing... very likely to OVER-correct.


People such as your self have been saying that for quite some time now, and it doesn't seem to be happening.

Look at the Senate and tell me it isn't a mandate, when you lose seats and have an 11-seat minority that is a mandate. Look at the house and tell me that isn't a mandate; we gained 4 more seats to increase the lead by 31 total. The dems lost seats in both houses and even lost 2 states with a total vote of 12. While the Rep only lost one state worth a total of 4. You might look at 2 or 3% as small, but the Dem dream boy never even won by that much and that was a mandate back then according to some people. 3.5 million votes is quite a bit to over come and no matter how you tried to arrange a recount, it still wasn't going to change.

Someone said he barely won the Electoral vote. I would say a vote of 286 to 252 is more then barely winning, that is an a$$ whipping. That is over 30 electoral votes.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:55 pm
Just my take and I am an admitted left wing fanatic liberal, but really guys if you don't do something to curb the pork barrel/deficit spending that even makes Ted Kennedy jealous there won't be an economy left to argue about at the end of Bush's final 4.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 09:16 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Just my take and I am an admitted left wing fanatic liberal, but really guys if you don't do something to curb the pork barrel/deficit spending that even makes Ted Kennedy jealous there won't be an economy left to argue about at the end of Bush's final 4.


I'll agree with you on that one. While some pork can't be prevented, there is some that can be controlled and should be controlled.

Maybe we can start with funding for the Big Dig?
0 Replies
 
 

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