Vow of silence

I don't think you can do it.

Re: Vow of silence


Probably yes, if you live as hermit.

Well, I live among Republicans, does that count?

Re: Vow of silence


Why?

I'm gonna be loud and do what I can to effect change.

Things will continue to worsen...it will be tough for some of us to hold our tongues.

If it's A2K you're talking about FD, I'm joining you.
I just read two posts by O'Bill, a poster I used to respect, calling Kerry a scumbag.

All the gleeful crowing by Baldimo and Larry are nauseating. I'll stay tuned to the non-political threads.

p, I definitely mean A2K, but also among friends and family -- though I wasn't that vocal anyway since, as I said above, I am among Republicans -- and not the decent kind.

you bedtter learn to keep your mouth shut if you don't want people coming to your house and taking you away in the night......

Re: Vow of silence


Because I'd like to save my energy.

Screw that! I say F*ck 'em! F*ck this bullshit about coming together. I'm going to be the most aggravating bastard possible to them. Come on, join me, and let's drive these people absolutely insane for the next four years (or however long it takes until Bush gets impeached)!!!

To use a line out of the Republican textbook, "Don't let the terrorists win!"

I felt the same way when I read those, pan. I'm afraid it has changed my opinion of O'Bill.

And I really liked him.

Duck,

We need more sane voices, not less. Please reconsider.

Ah, another quadrennial Presidential season comes to a close, and the Democratic Party is defeated. Though many here are convinced that this Republican victory spells doom for the country, that isn't likely. I expect that the existing trends will continue pretty much as they were. The economy will continue to recover, slowly. The National Debt will continue to soar as the nation struggles to defeat international radical Islamic terrorists, and establish stability in Iraq. American soldiers will remain overseas carrying out difficult tasks. Iran and DPRK will continue to thumb their noses at UN and international demands that they foreswear building nuclear stockpiles. The price of oil will remain high. Domestic issues like abortion, gay marriages, stem cell research, etc. will continue to be an obsession with many American citizens. The most extreme partisans of the left will continue to agitate and obstruct administration policies.

There almost certainly will not be unity and tranquility on the American political horizons. That's alright. It's also the "norm" in American political history. One of the great errors of the Federalist Party in the years leading up to the Revolution of 1800, was our commitment to "unity and citizen tranquility". While Washington and Adams worked tirelessly to compromise and include the "best" without regard to Party, the Democratic-Republicans built a strong base by the same infamous appeals that we've just witnessed. The Federalists biggest error was the Alien and Sedition Acts, an attempt to forcibly insure "non-malicious, truthful utterances" about political figures. Even so we might have won the 1800 election if Hamilton hadn't weakened the Party from within by his disloyalty to Adams. Oh well, we were driven into extinction by opposing the Jeffersonian War Hawks who got us into that ghastly War of 1812.

Shrill partisans from the principal political parties have ever since dominated the Nation. Quincy Adams, the last Federalist won a close election in the House of Representatives, though Jackson had a huge lead in the popular vote. Jackson was one of the nation's most popular Presidents, but the opposition to him and his administration was every bit as bitter as we seen today in the most radical Democrats. The whole nation remained at odds, split between the plantation/slave culture of the South and the industrial/progressive North. The Democrats of the Old South believed in States Rights, and the Whigs saw America's future in the development of its natural resources that could only be accomplished by national government and investment. There was strong opposition to the Mexican War, and both political parties exploited that war for their own advantage. President Polk was the target of political smears, and he in turn managed the war to strengthen his party at the expense of the opposition. The nation was never so divided as it was in 1862, and hopefully The Late Unpleasantness will never reoccur.

There was no unanimity in the country after the question of secession was decisively settled in 1865. The defeated Democrats of the South found means of subverting the extension of civil rights to their liberated slaves. The gap between the rich and the very poor was far greater than it is today, and there were virtually no federal constraints on how monopoly and Trust businesses were run. Farmers were exploited by railroads, and the legislative branch was pretty much owned by the big wheelers and dealers. There was great dissatisfaction within the poorer laboring classes over child labor, long working hours, lack of job security, and the lack of opportunity. Folks who were dissatisfied with the way the country was run settled the West, and they held very divergent ideas about how the government should be run than those who stayed behind in the East.

The Spanish-American War was popular with the American People whose emotions had been stirred up by the Yellow Press, but the nation was sharply divided over what the government did with the spoils of war. Current fears about the creation of an American "Empire" are nothing compared to the opposition to holding the Philippine Islands as a "Protectorate". Those who are appalled at the difficulties faced in Iraq have forgotten the long and bitter struggle that had to be fought against Philippine nationalists like Aguinaldo. Aguinaldo wasn't a terrorist and his struggle against American domination was far more justified than we see in Iraq. Opposition to the Administration was very strong and divisive. The brutalities that occurred during the Philippine Insurrection are a continuing stain on the reputation of our military forces. If todays ubiquitous media had been around to show the day to day realities of that struggle, one can easily imagine greater opposition than there was during the most divisive period during the Vietnam era. In the end the insurrection was put down, and the foundations of a democratic society were put in place. When the U.S. pulled out and the Philippines became fully independent in 1946, the nation had made great strides towards democratic government.

WWI didn't bring unity and reduction in political partisanship either. Opponents to the war led strikes and engaged in sabotage to cripple the war effort. That's what the Democratic Wilson claimed anyway as he imposed some of the most restrictive measures over our public liberties since the suspension of Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. US military troops were put in charge of the railroads, and miners were forced back into the mines. Dissenting political opinion was "discouraged" and raids were staged against organizations that opposed our involvement in WWI. FDR mobilized the opposition to Hoover's apparent inability to deal with the Great Depression, and gained the White House. Today folks remember how loved FDR was, but at the time he was the target of some of the most outlandish attacks imaginable. We still hear some spin the conspiracy theory that FDR was somehow behind the attack on Pearl Harbor. During WWII the nation did come together and partisanship seemed to be set on the back burner, but the day the war ended the nation was again rife with political bickering.

The Cold War (1944-1992) was a time when our traditional ideas about what war is were challenged. There was no "declared war' and most of the fighting and dying was done by clients in remote marginal areas. Every administration during the Cold War faced opposition. JFK was a hero to many of us, but to others he was almost evil incarnate. "Evil incarnate" is how many regarded LBJ and Nixon, but both had their supporters and both won election by huge margins. I think most of us liked Ford and Carter, but neither administration was particularly noted for its unanimity and domestic consensus. is how many regarded LBJ and Nixon, but both had their supporters and both won election by huge margins. I think most of us liked Ford and Carter, but neither administration was particularly noted for its unanimity and domestic consensus about how the nation should be governed. The opposition to Reagan was widespread, vehement and predicted that the sky would fall due to his economics and devotion to building a strong military. They were wrong. The Soviets collapsed and the economy shifted into high gear. Who can forget the doom-sayers when Bush sent our forces into the Gulf? Clinton got elected on economic issues and was the darling of the left, but the nation was still divided and those who hated Clinton was just as large as the number who currently hate Bush.

We briefly had national consensus after 9/11, but this war is far different from the one that raged from 1941-1945. This is much more like the Cold War; even with all the media coverage, it seems remote from the daily lives of most Americans. The most rabid opposition likes to portray the threat as so small and the costs so high, that we should all agree that the administration is filled with liars, conspirators, and megalomaniacs. We have been, and will continue to hear extravagant claims that our Constitutional government is in grave danger, and that "insiders" started and continue the war to enrich themselves out of the public coffers. There will be enough truth, as there always is, to keep the hounds baying for blood. Such is the political history and political environment of a free society. This is not our weakness, nor even a threat to our liberty. It is our strength and the proof that there is room for diversity. It is the impetus that keeps Americans politically active as they strive to advance their own partisan interests. One of the clues that our system of government is endangered will be when there is no strong and partisan opposition parties in the land. To daily hear the most outrageous calumnies slung at our representatives is distressing, it gives heart to our enemies, but it is the canaries song that tells us the air of liberty is still strong and breathable.

For those of you whose candidate has lost, don't dispair. Our liberty is not in danger, the Constitution is stronger than ever and our national will to continue the fight against international islamic terrrorism is clear. No one expects you to give up your partisan passions. If you choose civil disobediance, then be prepared to suffer the consequences. Your representatives in Congress provide a check on administration excesses, and your public voice will be heard. Can you persuade the majority that they are wrong, and you are right? So far, the Democratic Party and its leadership have failed to move the majority of Americans. I see that some here are already thinking of Hillary Clinton in four years. You can certainly try it, and as a registered Republican can think of few more attractive candidates. If, as we believe, the next four years will fully justify the re-election of President Bush, you will need a strong candidate in 2008.

Asherman, I agree with some of what you are saying. The United States will most likely get through this difficult period and our Democracy will emerge intact.

But would you have said this 100 years ago?

"Don't despair about the Indian relocation. Sure 1000's of Native Americans will die, but don't worry our democracy will survive.

Historically, there have been many grave crimes commited by the American Democracy. The Alien and Sedition act was nowhere near the worst.

We saw near 100 years of slavery. We killed thousands of Native Americans in what can only be called a genocide. From lynchings to stolen land to black lists to internments. To say we "shouldn't despair" because democracy will be OK seems a tad flippant.

Many Americans rightly despaired as the Indians were being slaughtered, land was being stolen from the Mexicans, People were put into concentrations camps in the Phillipines and when America was supporting death squads murdering villigers in Latin America.

Strong Opposition is crucial in times like this. Concerned citizens "agitating and obstructing" the administration have ended wars, won civil rights and stopped slavery.

American soldiers aren't "establishing stability" in Iraq, they are dying and killing. The National debt is not the fault of the terrorists, but a fault of our choice to cut taxes and flex our military might overseas.

Our liberty is in danger from the "Patriot act" the same as it was from the "Alien and Sedition Act". Our Constitution is being weakened as first Amendment rights are being challenged on several fronts.

Sure these types of things have hapened in the past, but that doesn't mean that it's OK.

The "extreme partisans of the left" from history include Martin Luther King, H.D. Thoreau and abolitionists. These are the people who have done the most, and given the most to make America great. These are the type of people America needs in times like these.

I would be greatly honored to be included in this number.

This saddens me. I have read Bush called every terrible name allowed on A2K and suddenly I'm a bad guy because I slam his opponent. Delaying admission of his obvious defeat put him in the category of scumbag, IMHO. People I respect greatly use worse words to describe Bush on a daily basis. I do hope you guys are having over-emotional reactions because this is "sore loser" behavior... and after accusing me of gloating. I cheer when my Packers win too... and live to make fun of the Bears. When my Packers lose, I don't suddenly decide to take personally the opinions of the Bear Fans. If you were trying to hurt my feelings, it worked.

Re: Vow of silence


I hope you do not stay silent, Duck. You actually have shown a very sound thought process, and have been very effective in forcing me to back some of my statements here. While some of the posters on A2K, from both sides, have shown an occasional tendency to be somewhat shrill in their posts, you have always remained strong and logical in your comments.

You have caused me to re-evaluate my positions numerous times, and I would miss that, as I think most other conservative posters would.

At least think about it for a couple of days before making a decision???????.........

I saw your post Bill, and as much as I hate to admit it, you are right. They are overreacting.

You are still a blockhead though. :wink:

I'm with A Lone Voice (a most gracious post too, ALV) - if from the other side, of course.

You're a voice of reason, FreeDuck. We need people like you to speak more, not less. Here on A2K and probably out in the real world too. We're the better for it.