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Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 08:06 am
conteext:
It is to avoid this plain confession of truth, as it should seem, that this imitation of masters-indeed, almost all imitation which implies a more regular and progressive method of attaining the ends of painting-has ever been particularly inveighed against with great keenness, both by ancient and modern writers.

I think the writer means:

The imitation of master has ever been particularly inveighed against with great keenness, both by ancient and modern writers.

Am I on the right track?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 583 • Replies: 9
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stuh505
 
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Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 09:00 am
Yes, that is an accurate simplification.

Unfortunately, this is gibberish. We can only guess what the writer meant, because his grammar is atrocious.
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Wy
 
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Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 12:46 pm
It's a pretty convoluted sentence, stuh, but it's gramatic. It sounds a lot like "scholarly" writing I've read. Seems to be what some college professors want; leads to writing like this at a "publish or perish" level.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Sun 31 Oct, 2004 04:06 pm
Wy, I took a closer look...and you are correct, there is nothing wrong with it grammatically....unless you contest the use of "as it should seem" being used to mean "it seems".

A translation into layman's terms...

Quote:
It is to avoid this plain confession of truth, as it should seem,


It seems that in order to avoid admitting to the previously mentioned fact,

Quote:
that this imitation of masters-indeed, almost all imitation which implies a more regular and progressive method of attaining the ends of painting-


that this imitation of a master painter's works, or any artistic imitation which provides an easier or more methodical approach to painting,

Quote:
has ever been particularly inveighed against with great keenness, both by ancient and modern writers.


has always been looked down upon by writers.

-----

And a summary...

This imitation, and more generally all imitations of master painters' works, which offer a much more procedural and methodical approach to painting, have always been looked down upon to hide this* simple truth.

* = refers to a statement in the preceeding sentence that the author considers a fact

In order to keep the precise original meaning, the comma after "works" should be removed. However, I felt like adding the implication that all imitations offer an easier and more methodical approach...because I believe it.

So oristar, your translation is in fact not valid.

It is worth noting the definition of "inveighed" which means essentially "looked down upon" (I didn't know it).
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 01:00 am
Thanks Stuh and Wy.

Here is another pretty convoluted sentence:

It would be no wonder if a student, frightened by these terrors and disgraceful epithets, with which the poor imitators are so often loaded, should let fall his pencil in mere despair, conscious how much he has been indebted to the labours of others, how little, how very little of his art was born with him; and, considering it as hopeless, to set about acquiring by the imitation of any human master what he is taught to suppose is matter of inspiration from heaven.

I dunno what "it" refers to in "considering it as hopeless" and what 'acquiring" means.
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Wy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 07:51 am
Hi Oristar and stuh,

Thanks for the explanation, stuh. Your breakdown of the sentence leads to clear understanding.

Ori, the student considers "acquiring his art" -- learning to write well -- hopeless, because of all the poor writers who have gone before.

Somehow this sounds as if it were written a long time ago. Do you have a publication date?
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 09:32 am
Hi Wy,

It was from a discourse delivered by Joshua Reynolds to to the students of the Royal Academy on the distribution of the prizes, December 10, 1774.

The discourse VI could be found here;
http://www.authorama.com/seven-discourses-on-art-8.html
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 09:48 am
Quote:
Ori, the student considers "acquiring his art" -- learning to write well -- hopeless, because of all the poor writers who have gone before.


Actually, that's not at all what it means. It's not even about writing Razz It is much easier to understand the true meaning when read in the full context.

In layman's terms:

Many people think that it is some divine power that allows others to create artwork so much more exquisite than their own, but it is ignorant to claim that any artwork is truly original, or inspired directly from God, because all we can do is imitate what we see.
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stuh505
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 09:53 am
By the way, this President seems very intelligent. I agree with him whole-heartedly.

The mysterious "this" from the first paragraph is referring to the popular misconception that masterful artwork can be truly original, in the strictest definition of the word.
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oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Nov, 2004 11:03 am
Hi Stuh,

I've been much inspired by you! Thanks.

If possible, please introduce more your opinion about the discourse, which seems so convoluted for me!
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