Well, so far Baldimo, you haven't shown that there is such a thing as a left wing extemist judge. Is it possible that, gasp, judges by and large are just doing their job and that the judicial system, with its system of appeals and review, actually works quite well to prevent judges from running amock? And that the term activist judge is just a political buzzword used by people who don't agree with certain decisions because it goes against their ideology?
In defining judicial activism, Baldimo wrote (above): "Over turned the will of the people ....."
Sometimes the will of the people is not in keeping with the Law (letter and spirit) of the Land, vis a vis the US Constitution.
Consider racial segregation. Do you actually think "the will of the people" would ever have brought racial civil rights? Had we put racial civil rights to a popular vote, we'd probably still have separate but "equal". Today, most people recognize the blatant inequity of segregation, but fifty years or so ago, over 80% of Americans did not.
One of the most important functions of the courts is to protect the rights of minorities who, by definition, cannot vote themselves those rights. So then, IMO, judicial activism as defined by Baldimo above is sometimes not only desirable, but constitutionally mandated, don't you think?
(Waiting patiently for
Baldimo to address my previous post)
joefromchicago wrote:
(Waiting patiently for
Baldimo to address my previous post)
The previous post being:
joefromchicago wrote:FreeDuck wrote:Joe, it looks like our work is done here.
If only that were true.
I'm guessing this was not the post you reffered to. If you were reffering to another post, you might want to repost it, or at least link it.
Quite right,
Einherjar, I meant my previous
substantive post. If
baldimo is too busy to click the "previous page" button, I'll repeat it here:
I have quite a few examples of judges whom [i]I[/i] consider to be right-wing "activists," but I suspect that my notion of "activist" may not be the same as yours, [b]Baldimo[/b]. Rather than waste my time in guessing what your criteria for "activism" might be, why don't you just explain what you're looking for. Once I know what you mean by "activist," I'll be better able to answer your question.
I cited the judge that over turned the will of the people in California in the Prop 187 case. This is really a matter of opinion and I am trying to find cases where people think a judge from the right was being an activist.
Don't seek what I think, if I knew that then I wouldn't be asking.
Baldimo wrote:I cited the judge that over turned the will of the people in California in the Prop 187 case. This is really a matter of opinion and I am trying to find cases where people think a judge from the right was being an activist.
Don't seek what I think, if I knew that then I wouldn't be asking.
So if I, for example, pointed out an instance where someone complained of a "right-wing activist" judge, you'd accept that as evidence that there are such things as right-wing activist judges?
Baldimo wrote:Could it be that there is no such thing as a right wing extremist judge?
Well if it is just a right wing extremist judge you are looking for, I nominate
Judge Roy Moore. I believe he has an agenda also. :wink:
Baldimo, what about my point (above) regarding "the will of the people" not always being in keeping with the Law of the Land making it necessary for judicial activists to guarantee equal rights for all?
Jumping in late here, but I think maybe Baldimo is looking for an example like the California Supreme Court when Rose Bird was Chief Justice?
In those times, Bird and an extremely liberal court majority would find any reason to overturn a death penalty case, as they held fervent anti-death penalty beliefs.
Case after case was overturned, yet when the state took the case to Federal Court, the CA court decision was overturned. Bird and the other liberal members of the court were up front about their 'activist' actions, and in fact did not (as I recall) ever affirm any death penalty case.
Bird and 2 other justices were later removed from office by voters.
If examples such as this are what baldimo is looking for, does he need more?
I did some reading on Rose Bird and her two colleagues that lost re-election in '86. It seems she drew the ire of the public for overturning death sentences. Remarkably, though, death sentences appear to continue to be overturned by the same rate -- only now by federal courts on appeal from the California courts. Could it be that California has a problem trying death penalty cases?
Here is good website about the Bird court which examines their rulings:
http://www.rosebirdprocon.org/pop/VoteStats.htm
Note the % on guilt and special circumstance rulings (I and II), but of what was of main interest to those of us involved in criminal law was her ruling percentage on the penality phase, which was usually the last stop before Federal appeals commenced: 19 of 19, or 100%.
Another good site, from which I will provide the relevant info:
Quote:[Footnote 17: During Rose Bird's tenure as Chief Justice, the California Supreme Court voted to reverse 64 of the 68 death-sentences that it reviewed--with Bird voting to reverse in every single case. See Philip Hager, `Justice Prevails--Cruz Reynoso Was Swept Off the State Supreme Court With Rose Bird, but Now He's Found New Causes and a New Career', Los Angeles Times Magazine, August 13, 1989, at 18; Cynthia Gorney, `Rose Bird and the Court of Conflict', Washington Post, April 8, 1986, at C1. All of these reversals are included in Liebman's study. Chief Justice Bird and Justices Reynoso and Grodin--all of whom had similar voting records in death-penalty cases--were removed from the California Supreme Court by an overwhelming majority of California voters in a 1986 retention election. Following this change in its membership, the California Supreme Court ended its roadblock of capital punishment in that State. See Jess Bravin, `Death Rare for Killers, Study Says', The Wall Street Journal, November 11, 1998, at CA1.]
Link:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp107&r_n=sr315.107&sel=TOC_173893&
This is a pretty good example of an 'activist' judge?
Well, that's a fair example of a left wing activist judge.
And I think judge Roy Moore was a good example of the other side of the coin.
Thanks for the links, btw, ALV.
mesquite wrote:Baldimo wrote:Could it be that there is no such thing as a right wing extremist judge?
Well if it is just a right wing extremist judge you are looking for, I nominate
Judge Roy Moore. I believe he has an agenda also. :wink:
I would agree that Roy Moore does hold an agenda. Is what he did consider activist yes or no? Extreme is a different story.
angie wrote:Baldimo, what about my point (above) regarding "the will of the people" not always being in keeping with the Law of the Land making it necessary for judicial activists to guarantee equal rights for all?
There are cases where I would agree with this and civil rights to blacks are a perfect example. At the time I'm sure this was considered activism at the time, but if I remember, at the time it was the politicians who granted civil rights to all and this is a will of the people through their elected politicians. This was not a court mandated issue but rather a law issue that was handled through the law, not the courts.
A Lone Voice wrote:Jumping in late here, but I think maybe Baldimo is looking for an example like the California Supreme Court when Rose Bird was Chief Justice?
In those times, Bird and an extremely liberal court majority would find any reason to overturn a death penalty case, as they held fervent anti-death penalty beliefs.
Case after case was overturned, yet when the state took the case to Federal Court, the CA court decision was overturned. Bird and the other liberal members of the court were up front about their 'activist' actions, and in fact did not (as I recall) ever affirm any death penalty case.
Bird and 2 other justices were later removed from office by voters.
If examples such as this are what baldimo is looking for, does he need more?
This is what I'm looking for, but examples from the right not the left. I have info on what I believe is activism from the left.
Baldimo wrote: "There are cases where I would agree with this and civil rights to blacks are a perfect example. At the time I'm sure this was considered activism at the time, but if I remember, at the time it was the politicians who granted civil rights to all and this is a will of the people through their elected politicians. This was not a court mandated issue but rather a law issue that was handled through the law, not the courts."
Wasn't school desegration ordered as a result of Brown vs. the Board of Education? (I'm not sure )
Here in Boston, de jure (racial) segregation (drawing school lines to deliberately segregate schools that would not have otherwise been segregated) caused the schools to be put into receivership by the state court, and that same court ordered school busing to reverse the situation.
does this constitute right wing, conservative activism?
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/33.htm
Plessy vs. Ferguson (created "separate but equal")
reversed by what I guess must be left-wing, liberal activism ...
http://www.nationalcenter.org/brown.html
Brown vs. Board of Ed (ruled that "separate but equal" is not equal)
I guess I'm looking for something more current that more people would have heard about. Oh well times up, my speech is tomorrow.
