Help with cultural differences!

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Hi, this is my first time here.

I have a question that I posted in another forum but for which I didn't get any help. I don't know if my question is that annoying or weird, may be embarrassing, I don't really know. But I will take another chance by posting it in this great forum that I just found today.

Well, I thought I might need some help and advice for myself and this seems to be a good place.

I will try to explain and hopefully I will be clear enough. English is a foreign language to me.

My question is about the cultural differences and their effect on love/marriage relationships.

I'm a 28 year old male. I come from a Middle-Eastern country, Egypt, and I have been in the United States for 2 years.

I think I have to give you some background about the man-woman relationship in my culture.
Well, I think the most significant difference is the way sexuality is seen. In my culture, having sex equals being married for 90% of men and women. It is the normal thing that your spouse will be the first man or
woman in your life, and most probably the ONLY one.

So as I moved to the US I always said to myself I would rather marry an Egyptian to avoid all the possible problems of cultural differences. It is not that I don't respect this society, I know how much our environment
affects us and we all are less or more conditioned by our culture. But I cannot do it myself, I understand that people in the West can see sex as a physical pleasure and they accept to have multiple relationships
before they get married, but I don't want to do it this way, and I also would love that my partner would be like me. My wife will be the first woman in my life and so I wish to be for her.

But things are not always that sure. I started to think about this problematic issue when I met an American friend. I just met her 4 times and exchanged some emails. I'm an intellectual person. When I first saw her I liked her, but this was all, we can like many girls we see every day. But when I got to read some stuff she has written I liked her even more. And then I started to think if our friendship can go further. I think that as long as one is single and looking, it is normal that we will always see in a person from the other sex who attracts us in a particular way an
eventual life partner.

I have to clarify that what I look for is not a date. Well I'm not very sure of the real meanings of all the terms used in this foreign culture to me, even if it looks clear enough it cannot really be so for a new comer.
I don't think of dating for dating. If I date it would be the way to marriage. And I would not even think of having much physical contact with a fiancee as long as we're not married yet, at least just a religious marriage.

Of course the cultural differences are not the only matter when it comes to marriage. But they seem to be the first issue to conisder when they exist.

So far I'm not sure if the problem I'm talking about is clear enought, so I will try to write it down in points:

- I have never had any physical relationship with a woman. This was my choice, I wanted to save it to one person.
And for me the physical contact cannot be easilty forgotten, so I don't want it to be occasional, I want it to "have a future". That said, it might be obvious that I will love my partner to be like me. But now that I'm in a culture where people see things differently, I might find a girl that looks unique to me and looks too good to lose, but she would never be like me from this point. She had boyfriends, I don't know how many. She might also have had sex with other men as well, and I don't know how many.

- Let's say that I will forget this past because I like many other qualities in her and I assume that she will be loyal to me.

- In your opinion, how would an American girl see a 28 year old man who never had sex? How does this sound in this culture? Would she like it or see it as a lack of experience? And on the other hand, would she understand how he feels towards her past so that she helps him just really forget it?

- How does it sound in a western culture to tell a girl from the very begining that what I'm looking for is a wife and not a girlfriend the western way? Knowing, of course, that we will need time to know each other better bofore we decide to get married.

- When it comes to "upgrading" a friendship to a more intimate relationship, should I wait long before declaring that I think about this possibility? Or should I just say it when I first feel it can be more than a friendship to me, in order to consider it seriously? And if her answer is NO, would it be really possible to continue seeing each other as friends, which I can very well do?

- I thought about writing her an email to explain my thoughts to her, just because I think that declaring is better than hiding. It is a way to be honest with her, with myself and with God who I believe is watching over us. And it is much eaiser for me to explain in writing.

- In such case, should I start by only asking if she is ready to consider a further step in our relationship, or should I tell her about all these cultural differences in the very first email?

- I'm not sure if I will really be able to tolerate all her past relationships. Here is my feeling. I know for sure she has been into relationships. But What I would be able to accept is having had relationships only with
a boyfriend (I'm pretty sure she has not been married before), but if she has had several occasional relationships with different men then this might really hurt me, because I think this means we don't share a fundamental vision of life. I'm against occasional relationships, but
I don't know how they are really seen in this culture, are they as normal as satisfying the other physical needs such the need for food or for sleep, as some friend told me, attacking my choice of not having sex till I get married?? I don't know and I need to understand.

- So I repeat my question: should I really mention all these issues in the very begining, to avoid starting and then hurting her by saying no I cannot stand it when later on I know about the type of relationships she had?? I really don't want to hurt her or hurt myself and that's why I'm thinking of mentioning all these issues in the very begining.
This, of course, in the case she is interested. If she is not then all these possibilities and worries are actually non'existant.

- I know I have focused on one matter. There are lots of other issues to discuss, such as religion, the way each one of us intends to raise his/her kids...etc. But these I think are easier and can be discussed objectively and they don't represent much mystery for me. I need some insight from you who belong to this culture and understand it much better than I do.

I hope that what I have just written is clear enough and understandable, and I would really appreciate your thoughts.

I also want to confirm that I didn't mean any offend by what i said. I'm trying to speak objectively and I think mature people can always discuss these matters and cultural differences with no problem and in a friendly and rational way. And that's actually why I chose to post my thread here.

Thanks for you all who took the time to read this very long thread.

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Yes, there ARE cultural differences concerning sex between people of the middle east and the west. But there are also differences amongst people within the same culture.

Quote:

In your opinion, how would an American girl see a 28 year old man who never had sex? How does this sound in this culture? Would she like it or see it as a lack of experience? And on the other hand, would she understand how he feels towards her past so that she helps him just really forget it?

In the US most men of 28 have had some sexual experience. There are some women who would look at a man of this age, with no experience, as an anomaly. But then again, you characterize yourself as intellectual. As such, I would suspect that you would be looking for a woman who is on a similar intellectual level. I believe that an educated, intelligent woman would understand the cultural differences, and not be put off by them.

Quote:

How does it sound in a western culture to tell a girl from the very begining that what I'm looking for is a wife and not a girlfriend the western way? Knowing, of course, that we will need time to know each other better bofore we decide to get married.

I think that many American women might have a problem with this. It could be perceived as pressuring her. American women want to get to know a man before she even thinks of marriage. IMO, if you see someone who interests you, keep the idea of marriage to yourself, until you get to know the woman well. In the first few dates, you can probably get an idea of what this person wants in life.

Quote:

I thought about writing her an email to explain my thoughts to her, just because I think that declaring is better than hiding. It is a way to be honest with her, with myself and with God who I believe is watching over us. And it is much eaiser for me to explain in writing.

Do you want a discussion or a monologue? You seem to express yourself very well in English. I think that discussing your thoughts with her in person would be most beneficial for both of you. Her body language, her facial reactions, will tell you much much more than you could ever learn from E Mailing each other.

Yes, you are in a different culture. And there are many differences. You need to decide for youself how important chastity is to you. Sexual experience is very common in women by the time they reach their mid twenties. In fact, I think that I could safely say, that in this culture, a woman in her twenties who has not had sex has relationship problems.

The point is, just how much experience in a woman could you be comfortable? Only you can decide. Good luck, and welcome to Able2Know!

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Hi there! I don't know if my answer will help, since i'm from France, but I did spend almost two years in the US, and I don't think that western european culture and american culture are that different, especially in dating issues.

First of all, I think people are free to choose how they want to go through life. You seem to have strong principles, and if you manage to stick with them (with all the countless temptations lurking behind every corner Twisted Evil

) then good for you. In the end it all comes down to the girl in question, to whether or not she agrees with your moral standards, and is willing to compromise. I say compromise because you'll both have to change and look for the best solutions.

I'll try to be as objective as possible but I have to mention that I am exactly the opposite of what you're looking for. I date for the fun of it, not because I want a serious life-long realtionship, and I've had several occasional boyfriends.

Quote:

In your opinion, how would an American girl see a 28 year old man who never had sex? How does this sound in this culture? Would she like it or see it as a lack of experience? And on the other hand, would she understand how he feels towards her past so that she helps him just really forget it?

Well it may come as a bit of a shock. She might think it's weird. I wouldn't worry about the lack of experience part. I think the important thing is to clearly explain to her (when the time comes) your reasons; if she doesn't understand, well then she's probably wrong for you anyway.

Quote:

- How does it sound in a western culture to tell a girl from the very begining that what I'm looking for is a wife and not a girlfriend the western way?

Well it all depends on what she's looking for. Try to find out, before you actually upgrade your friendship, what she wants. If she's also looking for a serious relationship, then she'll probably be thrilled Laughing

, there aren't many guys out there willing to commit Twisted Evil

. If not, then telling her would probably scare her off, but if you really want to make things work, the best thing is to avoid telling her and take things really slow, with time maybe she'll change her mind... Either way, don't lay it out on her from the start, try talking as friends about these things and see how she feels.

DON'T write her an email!!! Even if you think you'll do better in writting, talking is always the best solution!
You're friends now, so you know, just try to talk to her about your country, and your culture, she'll probably be really interested in finding out things, and this way she knows how you think.

And about "upgrading" a friendship... well that's a delicate issue. Either you both want to, in which case it'll work out fine, either she sais no, and then things might get a bit weird.

Now we're back to the compromises we were talking about. Remember that she'll have to make a lot of them, so you should also try to understand her.

Quote:

if she has had several occasional relationships with different men then this might really hurt me, because I think this means we don't share a fundamental vision of life. I'm against occasional relationships, but
I don't know how they are really seen in this culture

Occasional relationships, occasional sex are pretty normal, and yes, it's a physical need. remember for her it's perfectly natural to have had several boyfriends, it doesn't mean that she won't be able to commit, or anything like that. You see, dating is really fun.

I hope this helps a bit..

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Re: Help with cultural differences!

Shedo wrote:

- In your opinion, how would an American girl see a 28 year old man who never had sex? How does this sound in this culture? Would she like it or see it as a lack of experience? And on the other hand, would she understand how he feels towards her past so that she helps him just really forget it?

As phoenix said most men of that age have had some sexual experience. But, if you find a truely special person and she feels the same way about you that you do about her it shouldn't matter. You don't get married based upon how good the sex is... you get married because you love each other... you will have the rest of your lives together to gain experience. Also, don't worry if she has had some prior experience. This should not affect your feelings for her at all... in fact she might be able to teach you a few things once you do get married and become physical.

Shedo wrote:

- How does it sound in a western culture to tell a girl from the very begining that what I'm looking for is a wife and not a girlfriend the western way? Knowing, of course, that we will need time to know each other better bofore we decide to get married.

I think you are confusing "dating" with "sex". You can daye someone and not have sex with them. Dating is how you get to know someone: their feelings, their beliefs, their personality etc.

So you want her to be a girlfriend so that you get the chance to know each other. Then you can both decide if marriage is what you want.

Shedo wrote:

- When it comes to "upgrading" a friendship to a more intimate relationship, should I wait long before declaring that I think about this possibility?

Yes. If you act to soon you may scare the girl away. Perhaps she is not ready to be married yet and needs more time to figure out her feelings. Once the two of you are comfortable with each other you will know when the time is right.

Shedo wrote:

- I thought about writing her an email to explain my thoughts to her, just because I think that declaring is better than hiding. It is a way to be honest with her, with myself and with God who I believe is watching over us. And it is much eaiser for me to explain in writing.

Saying something face to face is much better. It shows that you care enough to put yourself in a vulnerable position. Plus it is much easier to express your emotions when you are saying something face to face... and easier to see her reaction.

Shedo wrote:

- In such case, should I start by only asking if she is ready to consider a further step in our relationship, or should I tell her about all these cultural differences in the very first email?

Again... keep it simple. To much information can be overwhelming an may scare her away.

Shedo wrote:

- I'm not sure if I will really be able to tolerate all her past relationships. Here is my feeling. I know for sure she has been into relationships. But What I would be able to accept is having had relationships only with
a boyfriend (I'm pretty sure she has not been married before), but if she has had several occasional relationships with different men then this might really hurt me, because I think this means we don't share a fundamental vision of life. I'm against occasional relationships, but
I don't know how they are really seen in this culture, are they as normal as satisfying the other physical needs such the need for food or for sleep, as some friend told me, attacking my choice of not having sex till I get married?? I don't know and I need to understand.

The past is tha past and should not dictate the future. What is important is that the two of you have the same fundamental vision of your future together.

Shedo wrote:

- I know I have focused on one matter. There are lots of other issues to discuss, such as religion, the way each one of us intends to raise his/her kids...etc. But these I think are easier and can be discussed objectively and they don't represent much mystery for me. I need some insight from you who belong to this culture and understand it much better than I do.

But these issues are much more important to a relationship then whether or not she has had past experience. These are important views on how to live your lives together. If you have differences here, it is much more importatnt to work these out before getting married.

Shedo wrote:

I hope that what I have just written is clear enough and understandable, and I would really appreciate your thoughts.

I hope I have been as clear in my responses. If you have follow up questions please don't hesitate to ask.

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Good advice here.

One general idea I'd like to emphasize is that everyone is different. There are cultural tendencies, sure, but it's impossible to say that all women will like this or not like that. I've known many, many women who -- especially around that age -- are looking for a long-term relationship and don't want to waste their time with someone who doesn't share that interest. That kind of woman would be thrilled to have things out in the open from the outset.

THEN you can get to know each other and see if marriage is feasible -- if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but the relationship will benefit from understanding each other from the outset.

From what you say, I think I'd recommend a course of action something like this:

- Meet her (you have.)
- Talk about general things (you have.)
- Bring up, in person, that you are very interested in her (comliments here, sincere ones), but that you wish to be clear that in your culture, dating is not a casual thing. (As JP said "dating" in and of itself does equal sex -- one may date without sex.) Give some general cultural background if you haven't already. Note her reaction. Don't push if she seems hesitant, add that you value her friendship and keeping things at that level would be fine with you.
- IF she is amenable to dating, date. This means spend time together with the explicit understanding that you are interested in each other. You can then start talking about some of the other issues, the more general/ less sensitive ones -- but slowly, slowly, and not only those things.
- Once you have built a relationship -- not necessarily a sexual one of course, but one where you talk freely and openly and trust each other -- you can then talk about any remaining issues that are on your mind.
- See what happens.

Good luck!

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I think the previous two posts did a very good job, and I don't think I could really add much.

Quote:

- I'm not sure if I will really be able to tolerate all her past relationships. Here is my feeling. I know for sure she has been into relationships. But What I would be able to accept is having had relationships only with
a boyfriend (I'm pretty sure she has not been married before), but if she has had several occasional relationships with different men then this might really hurt me, because I think this means we don't share a fundamental vision of life.

Female virgins in this country recieve a lot of attention, and pressure, from males.
Females usually try to keep it a secret, but they always tell a freind - who tells a friend and from there, it's only a matter of time before every guy who thinks he has the slightest chance begins pursuing her.

Same thing happened when my class was finishing high school.
We found out one of the most attractive girls in the school was a virgin, and, we all took a shot at her.
It got to the point where guys, who didn't even know each other would literally fight, for no reason other than the fact that the other guy was pursuing her as well.
It was only a matter of weeks until she lost her virginity.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Her body language, her facial reactions, will tell you much much more than you could ever learn from E Mailing each other.

Be careful of this. Body language/facial expressions or proximics are metamessages. Their meanings are not human universals but are CULTURALLY specific. What they mean in American culture may be very different in middleastern culture. I would pay more attention to what she is verbally articulating unless you are comfortable with the meanings of these more subtle messages in American culture.

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Acquiunk- Good point. Did not consider that! It is true though, that there are certain bodily expressions that are universal.

I think that people everywhere could "read" the emotion on this woman's face, and not confuse it with love.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VQAjA8wbWtmQniJ0ZRuBDlxTYSELurrMlR43ylHrOZ5BLgYGAWmIRTcfVfwvLPu2SBgEInal2jMTRHw*ZrZ1h504438gmszmRhdpI1tKYhDvRHSNDajK3sLgo2I2cbSc/Disgust.jpg

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"I'm only doing this because i love you"

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Help with cultural differences!

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