The Physics of 911

Well, either he misunderstood the story, or the guns were made of plastic.

Thermite, and nano-thermite cutting charges aren't blast agents, and the form of the latter hadn't been seen before in standard demolition events.

. . .

And yet your estimate is three times the 911 Commission's, and twice what F. R. Greening has concluded. And he's even a proponent of the official narrative. You must feel like everyone but you suffers from incompetence.
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Given the above considerations and a careful evaluation of the seismic data, it is estimated that the first stage of collapse took 11.3 + 1.5 seconds for each WTC tower. We will show in the following Section that the second stage of collapse added 1 – 2 seconds to the total collapse times . . .

http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf Page 2
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In videos of the collapse of the North Tower, the upper block is clearly seen dropping down without stopping. You believe that this upper block acted as a pile driver to crush the lower intact core structure below it. But if that were the case, there would have been not only a visible jolt and pause of the downward movenment of the upper block, but also the destruction of the more heat-damaged upper block as it met with the lower block. As such, the collapse would have been arrested because the upper block would have been destroyed easier and faster than the intact lower block. But that's not what happened. Once the upper block is in motion, it does not slow down.

In the case of the South Tower, the upper block (according to you) tipped over the edge of the building, thereby removing the pile-driver effect which is necessary to your theory. So you claim that some collapsing floors pulled the core and perimeter columns down with them.

Oh, and what about the explosions that shook the ground just before the North Tower begins to collapse? Any seismic data on that?

Of course! That must be it. So, Gerry Fornino, the FBI bomb technician who was privy to the investigation, is no different from Leslie Robertson and all of the other people making claims that challenge your view of things. They all misunderstand what they see and hear. I see . . .

Can you explain how come the car didn't melt?

Open your eyes and see.

I don't know that it didn't. I just know that you, an anonymous poster on an internet forum who was not involved in the investigation, are not as credible as the FBI bomb technician who was involved in the investigation. Why would he lie. And interestingly enough, there has been mention on this thread of melted concrete. At what temperature does concrete melt at?

And yet your estimate is three times the 911 Commission's, and twice what F. R. Greening has concluded. And he's even a proponent of the official narrative. You must feel like everyone but you suffers from incompetence.

From F. R. Greening:

Given the above considerations and a careful evaluation of the seismic data, it is estimated that the first stage of collapse took 11.3 + 1.5 seconds for each WTC tower. We will show in the following Section that the second stage of collapse added 1 – 2 seconds to the total collapse times . . .

http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf Page 2

In videos of the collapse of the North Tower, the upper block is clearly seen dropping down without stopping. You believe that this upper block acted as a pile driver to crush the lower intact core structure below it. But if that were the case, there would have been not only a visible jolt and pause of the downward movenment of the upper block, but also the destruction of the more heat-damaged upper block as it met with the lower block. As such, the collapse would have been arrested because the upper block would have been destroyed easier and faster than the intact lower block. But that's not what happened. Once the upper block is in motion, it does not slow down.

In the case of the South Tower, the upper block (according to you) tipped over the edge of the building, thereby removing the pile-driver effect which is necessary to your theory. So you claim that some collapsing floors pulled the core and perimeter columns down with them.

Oh, and what about the explosion that shook the ground just before the North Tower begins to collapse? Any seismic data on that?

If the car had melted, how could they see the elted guns inside the melted car? Why is this story even focussing on the guns if the broader car melted?

That's just another 9/11 legend. FBI folks are human, and humans are known to make mistakes. Or do you believe all they say about 9/11?

Whom would "they" be?

There's two points that can't be denied;

The radio tower was the first part of the structure to begin the freefall descent.

The radio tower made it all the way to the bathtub basement virtually undamaged.

The "FBI folks".

Now watch these points be ignored.

Here's a volunteer telling Diane Sawyer about parts of cars that were twisted and melted. The firefighter does not correct him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3fTCD4hFq8

Here's Dan Abrams of NBC news. He seems to corroborate the volunteer's story. 2:10 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kke1WOg3-k

And Gerry Fornino, the FBI bomb technician speaking on the audio below, starts out with: The things of interest that we'd seen.

http://www.sonicmemorial.org/public/freshkills/audio/forninomelting.mp3

It's okay to conclude that they are all mistaken. I suppose it's possible.
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And yet your estimate is three times the 911 Commission's, and twice what F. R. Greening has concluded. And he's even a proponent of the official narrative. You must feel like everyone but you suffers from incompetence.

From F. R. Greening:

Given the above considerations and a careful evaluation of the seismic data, it is estimated that the first stage of collapse took 11.3 + 1.5 seconds for each WTC tower. We will show in the following Section that the second stage of collapse added 1 – 2 seconds to the total collapse times . . .

http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf Page 2

In videos of the collapse of the North Tower, the upper block is clearly seen dropping down without stopping. You believe that this upper block acted as a pile driver to crush the lower intact core structure below it. But if that were the case, there would have been not only a visible jolt and pause of the downward movenment of the upper block, but also the destruction of the more heat-damaged upper block as it met with the lower block. As such, the collapse would have been arrested because the upper block would have been destroyed easier and faster than the intact lower block. But that's not what happened. Once the upper block is in motion, it does not slow down.

In the case of the South Tower, the upper block (according to you) tipped over the edge of the building, thereby removing the pile-driver effect which is necessary to your theory. So you claim that some collapsing floors pulled the core and perimeter columns down with them.

Oh, and what about the explosion that shook the ground just before the North Tower begins to collapse? Any seismic data on that?

People make mistakes, Glenn. And they prefer a good story to a true story. if you look at these accounts of 9/11 systematically, you will note that most of the second hand accounts of 9/11 are exagerated, mythologized, spiced up, dramatized beyond realism. So it should come as no surprise that plenty of absurd stories are peddled about 9/11. Like stories of guns melted at 4000 degree found inside a car that supposedly didn't melt, in a parking lot that surprisingly also managed to NOT turn into lava as the laws of physics would require at this temperature.

So when you hear ANY 9/11 second-hand account, take it with a ton of salt. Only first-hand accounts should ever be considered (not necessarily believed, but looked at). The rest is hearsay, rumors and urban legends.

Sure, I can appreciate that. However, in his reporting for "American Ground," Langewiesche explored the shifting debris with construction workers and engineers . . . He crawled through "the pile" with survey parties and descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams. Nobody challenged his account; nor did he retract it for reasons that the editor had put words in his mouth. Your theory is that the correspondent never said or wrote anything about steel flowing in molten streams, and that the editor decided to just say it out of the blue. Sure.

Richard Garlock, a structural engineer at Leslie E. Robertson Associates, was in WTC#6--which was not hit by a plane--said: "Going below, it was smoky and really hot. We had rescue teams with meters for oxygen and carbon dioxide. They also had temperature monitors. Here WTC 6 is over my head. The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running."

Leslie Robertson said he saw a little river of steel flowing.

News reporters and volunteers reported seeing melted cars. I even provided a video of Abrams live coverage.

And then I have an FBI bomb technician telling what he saw during the investigation. But your belief is that he made a mistake.

And yet your estimate is three times the 911 Commission's, and twice what F. R. Greening has concluded. And he's even a proponent of the official narrative. You must feel like everyone but you suffers from incompetence.

From F. R. Greening:

Given the above considerations and a careful evaluation of the seismic data, it is estimated that the first stage of collapse took 11.3 + 1.5 seconds for each WTC tower. We will show in the following Section that the second stage of collapse added 1 – 2 seconds to the total collapse times . . .

http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf Page 2

In videos of the collapse of the North Tower, the upper block is clearly seen dropping down without stopping. You believe that this upper block acted as a pile driver to crush the lower intact core structure below it. But if that were the case, there would have been not only a visible jolt and pause of the downward movenment of the upper block, but also the destruction of the more heat-damaged upper block as it met with the lower block. As such, the collapse would have been arrested because the upper block would have been destroyed easier and faster than the intact lower block. But that's not what happened. Once the upper block is in motion, it does not slow down.

In the case of the South Tower, the upper block (according to you) tipped over the edge of the building, thereby removing the pile-driver effect which is necessary to your theory. So you claim that some collapsing floors pulled the core and perimeter columns down with them.

Oh, and what about the explosion that shook the ground just before the North Tower begins to collapse? Any seismic data on that?

Why do you rely on the 9/11 commission for something you can see and measure by yourself? Are you blind or otherwise vision-impaired? It's okay if you are; I just want to understand why you don't ever use your own eyes.

That was a second-hand account by his editor. I don't accept hearsay. You'd need to quote from the book by Langewiesche itself if you ever want to get serious about this.

The FBI guy's account was second-hand, not first hand. He told a story that he heard of.



In none of these cases can the person be certain that the flowing stuff is steel. In fact, in the first instance "the debris" is probably made of cement. In the second case it could be any metal.

I am not against the idea that some steel could have melted in the rubbles via a "bloomer effect". I think it's entirely possible. But given that cement melts at a lower temp than steel, any large quantity of molten steel should be accompanied by an even larger lava flows. And yet, nobody reported large flows of lava like in a volcano... Therefore, if any steel melted in that pile of rubble, it must have been in small quantities. Do you follow the reasoning?

From another thread I wonder whether any stray electrical shorts wwere going on, An electric arc is able to melt steel easily especially since this was going on several days AFTER the buildings came down. Even if any kind of cutting charge or thermite was used, it would cool well below a curie point in a few minutes EVERYTHING weve seen so far has been looking exactly as iron bloom