DeVos: a mortal threat to the dem party

@gungasnake,

When I see this guys photo, the word "LUNCHTIME" does pop into my mind. Hes missed the point entirely about the value of teachers in many of the parochial schools (if he is so including them among the same boat passengers as the charter school teachers who, are subsidized by the state as a payment that was supposed to cut down the taxpayers burden in a growing education industry (but which has not cut down anything).
The NACST reps in Pa say:

Quote:

For 100,000 Catholic school teachers, there is
no vote on the conditions under which they work.
They have no mutually agreed upon job security,
due process or work rules. They are told how much
or how little they will be paid and how much of that
pay will be deducted for medical insurance.
For well over 100 years, the American labor
movement has fought long and hard to secure rights
for working people. From labor’s efforts came,
among other things, a defined work week which
includes the weekend, employer paid medical and
other insurance, and Medicare. Organized labor also
pushed for the National Labor
Relations Act so that workers could form a union
without risk of reprisal and be protected from unfair
labor practices. Sadly, since 1979, Catholic
elementary and secondary school teachers have been
excluded from these rights and protections because
of a U.S. Supreme Court decision.

The entire Catholic School systems are changing to an exetnt that they may not even be viable into the future. There is a large move in school closings and consolidation because the original purpose of Catholic SChools was to promote vocation. Thus the teachers ere captive members of religious orders bound to religious vows. That is no longer the case, so If the entire finncial burden of schooling were actually put up by some magic plan that de Vos thinks she has, the voters would be supporting all these different charter and religious schools .
In Pa, weve had closures of several Charter schools because of fraud or mismanagement and felony charges. Weve all seen the attempts at "HigherEducation" for-profit colleges fail, and the existing parochial schools are losing their base of vocation teachers (who were often untrained in their assigned subjects).

All this in a time when we see the need for more educational opportunities, not some politicized bullshit being preached by the king of donut eaters.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

There is a large move in school closings and consolidation because the original purpose of Catholic SChools was to promote vocation.

I have heard from intellectually honest Catholics that the "original" purpose of Catholic Schools was to prevent the Public Schools from turning children into good Protestants. There could be more than one original purpose?

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@Foofie,

Im just paraphrasing the diocesan letter(written by the Archbishop) that was published in the Allentown Paper several years ago when the first batches of Parochial schools in the Allentown/Reading Archdiocese were closed down and consolidated.

Maybe the Bishop was lying, I have no idea whether there were more reasons to have Catholic Schools. I was raised Catholic and I can say that we never hid our feelings about "non-Catholics". Protestants were moral midgets said Sister Atilla. We were soldiers of Christ, and were expected to die for the Church. Bullshit sez me. Angela's Ashes was written about a Catholic Kid in Ireland yet we had the same propaganda fed to us in Pennsylvania.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Quote:

I have heard from intellectually honest Catholics that the "original" purpose of Catholic Schools was to prevent the Public Schools from turning children into good Protestants. There could be more than one original purpose?

The main purpose of catholic schools in today's world is to prevent the democratic party and its affiliated education system and unions from turning inner city children into Dindus.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

I have heard from intellectually honest Catholics that the "original" purpose of Catholic Schools was to prevent the Public Schools from turning children into good Protestants.

The Catholic school system is a system based on religious dogma of a Byzantine belief system. It was the original "training ground" for vocation consideration and preyed on the newest arrivals to the country. Fund raising was always a Ponzi scheme and the education(vocation) priests and brothers were more often than not, a bunch of sexual predators.

The education results were always high because of one simple ass fact. yarly testing was accomplished to "WEED OUT" poor students and those needing the most help.
In my day, th relly "dumb kids" were gone by the second grqde qnd the mediocre students were weeded out by junior high. (And minor infractions in behavior, if students were "marginal performers") was used to put a student on notice that he or she would be expelled.

Expuslion was a threat that was much used in my day, but our school system was always a high performer. In fact I was a shill for the ed system because I won a regional science fair Three times and had all kinds of scholarship opportunities.

My dad and I decided on getting my ass OUT of the school by 11th grade so I could focus on "being a kid" rather than some painted monkey who was paraded out by the diocese as an example of what their school system could do.
Catholic schools of my school years, (the late 1950s to the early 70's when the first sex scams were gettin notoriety), overall, were elitist, they were shams, and they required high achiever results as an ad campaign.

Youd never find many marginal or low performing students or students with lerning disabilities, not because the parochial school "solved anything", it was more the result of careful "weeding out" of those low function students and they would get picked up by the public schools where the problems would continue.

So, if like Ms "Clueless" deVos, you have the financial wherewithall, are the parent of an early "Gifted" kid, or have a kid with a special nascent talent, private and parochial schools are certainly available for your elite ass.
I love how the GOP and Tea Baggers call the DEMS "elites' when its obvious that the GOP is becoming an OLIGARCHY in practice and focus.

Anybody wonder why 1984 is flying off the shelf??

As far as "Charter SChools", our taxes support these schools by "offloading public schools" by paying tribute to the charter organization on a per student capita basis. HERE in Pa we have several charter school organizations under indictment for mismanagement, misfeasance, and downright fraud. Im sure Ms deVos will "straiten them out"

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Best hope for the future is probably home schooling and home-school organizations.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

And home school universities, and home skool dentistry and home skool skools of brain surgery and ... .

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Im just paraphrasing the diocesan letter(written by the Archbishop) that was published in the Allentown Paper several years ago when the first batches of Parochial schools in the Allentown/Reading Archdiocese were closed down and consolidated.

Maybe the Bishop was lying, I have no idea whether there were more reasons to have Catholic Schools. I was raised Catholic and I can say that we never hid our feelings about "non-Catholics". Protestants were moral midgets said Sister Atilla. We were soldiers of Christ, and were expected to die for the Church. Bullshit sez me. Angela's Ashes was written about a Catholic Kid in Ireland yet we had the same propaganda fed to us in Pennsylvania.

What I don't understand is the emotional hold that the Catholic church has on those lapsed Catholics that have valid criticisms against the Church they were raised in. Meaning, if one values Chrisianity, there should be one denomination of Protestantism that a lapsed Catholic would be happy in? Plus, one can then join the social class game that seems to prevail in WASP America. Sort of like why be a Seattle Mariners fan, when there are other teams that dominate the sport. Maybe in Europe, Catholicism is the winning team, but in the U.S.? Unless of course through the marriages between Protestant males, and pretty Catholic girls, future generations of Catholics make the U.S. a Catholic country? However, I do believe the most influential Protestants seem to maintain their insular nature, and desire to remain separate in marriage too.

1 Reply

@camlok,

Quote:

And home school universities, and home skool dentistry and home skool skools of brain surgery and ... .

A homeschool University could not possibly do worse than whatever is producing the snowflake libtards which we see on television now. Dental schools and medical schools are basically trade schools and are not in the indoctrination business; there is no reason to believe that homeschool kids would have any problem with existing trade schools.

Your own kids will be working for homeschool kids and future time, don't laugh too hard...

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

snowflake libtards

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@Foofie,

Quote:

there should be one denomination of Protestantism that a lapsed Catholic would be happy in? Plus, one can then join the social class game that seems to prevail in WASP America. Sort of like why be a Seattle Mariners fan, when there are other teams that dominate the sport.

"Lapsed Catholics" or the latest "Separated Members" have chosen to just discard religion entirely. All religions have requirements of belief without factual bases. So whats the benefit of changing from one form of superstition to another? I thank the Catholic Church for making me more analytical in my thinking, although my study skills were more a product of "coaching" by non-vocational specialists rather than "shamanistic cult members"

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@farmerman,

I had a 12 year catholic education and the nuns I had taught us to think for ourselves. Not all of them of course but most did so. I was also taught that one only commits a sin if you believe you have. Since I have read the bible and much science literature I have come to believe that all religions based on books written thousands of years after events in them happened were fantasy written by zealots. I no longer believe in an afterlife but look forward to my long sleep.

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@RABEL222,

The issue herein is not about the "vlue" of proochil chools but the total incompetence of Ms Devos in even dealing with a public chool ytem. Guys like gunga are ill-equipped to give valid opinions hen their positions re bsed upon Byzantine worldviews that celebrate astrology, alchemy, and myth.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
there should be one denomination of Protestantism that a lapsed Catholic would be happy in? Plus, one can then join the social class game that seems to prevail in WASP America. Sort of like why be a Seattle Mariners fan, when there are other teams that dominate the sport.
"Lapsed Catholics" or the latest "Separated Members" have chosen to just discard religion entirely. All religions have requirements of belief without factual bases. So whats the benefit of changing from one form of superstition to another? I thank the Catholic Church for making me more analytical in my thinking, although my study skills were more a product of "coaching" by non-vocational specialists rather than "shamanistic cult members"

My point might just be that in the U.S., Protestants seem to more often maintain an American identity, without the "hyphen" or the narrative, "Even though I'm _______, I am a patriotic American-_________. I say this in the belief that those Protestant Americans I've met do not seem to always resonate with the tragedy of the world's suffering. Many Catholics seem to resonate with the tragedy in the world, be it a Catholic country or not. I'm not so sure that attitude is good for one's long term survival when upheaval occurs.

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@gungasnake,

Will the home skool kids you envision be more honest than their parents about how jet fuel and office furnishings cannot melt steel, vaporize steel, melt molybdenum, ... ?

Will they be honest enough to address these issues head on, without being petrified of the consequences?

Will they have a sense of justice big enough to not want, or allow people to be falsely accused of heinous crimes that they could not possibly have committed?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

"Lapsed Catholics" or the latest "Separated Members" have chosen to just discard religion entirely. All religions have requirements of belief without factual bases. So whats the benefit of changing from one form of superstition to another? I thank the Catholic Church for making me more analytical in my thinking, although my study skills were more a product of "coaching" by non-vocational specialists rather than "shamanistic cult members"

Thinking over your post above, I recall being told that even the adult non-religious Catholics seem to tend to doing all the rituals for their children, or spouses. Meaning, they will get married in a Catholic Church, if it is the first marriage for both. An infant will be taken to a parish priest to be Baptized. For some reason, one's early experience in a Catholic family seems to vaccinate one against any other form of Christianity. Not so in Judaism, since the Orthodox do occasionally go to another denomination. And, for that matter Jews have been known to join a Christian Church. And, other Jews might just see that as being "ambitious" (aka, seeking upward mobility). Not always, but I have heard that that is often the feeling from one's co-religionists.

Were you asking a rhetorical question, as far as what's the benefit of changing from one form of superstition to another? My answer is simple: one can fit into any region in the U.S. better, if one is Protestant. If one is some other faith, one might fit in, but it could be on a superficial level upon close examination. My opinion obviously.

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@Foofie,

I have several friends who grew up Catholic and then joined other Christian
sects, mainly Episcopal and Universalist-Unitarian.

One friend, whose father was Catholic and whose mother was Jewish, now
practices Judaism.

I even have a couple of friends who became Scientologists. Both have since
left it.

But most of my friends who have left the Catholic Church have abandoned
any practice of religion.

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@George,

I still attend Mass because it pleases my wife as I have pointed out once before. One of the posters called me a hypocrite. But I have skin like an alligator so it dident bother me much.

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@RABEL222,

There are lots of hypocrites when it comes to religion.

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DeVos: a mortal threat to the dem party

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