carrie wrote:I think if you look into these organisations, most of them, and the ones that I support do not endorse violence, including SHAC.
It is not against the law to cut chickens heads off with no pain relief, as the industry allows for a percentage to slip through the net;
it is not illegal to breed chickens to full weight in a quarter of the time it would have taken thirty years ago, and to inject them with water;
it is not illegal to call them free range when this means they have a square foot to grow in;
Battery hens are not illegal
it is not against the law to keep dairy cows constantly pregnant and remove their calves straight after they are born, of which many are instantly slaughtered if they are of no use;
it is not illegal to superglue dairy calves udders shut for the benefit of farm contests;
it is not illegal to transport animals in conditions unbearable to them, during which many die;
it is not illegal to stand an animal in a queue and let it watch another be killed while it waits its turn;
Think about your dog in the vet, taking any animal out of its environment and subjecting it to something scary is traumatic.
De barked dogs - not illegal
Putting tumours into cats brains and wiring them up - not illegal
Letting chickens wade in excrement up to their knees - not illegal
Live bleedings - not illegal
Veal calves trapped in pens no bigger than their bodies, having been removed from their mothers - not illegal
The killing box - made illegal by protestors
Why do you think people protest? Because it is mostly still legal!
It is not a case of cultish nutters joining together to worship murderous videos, it is a case of raising awareness of things which are very much still going on, and frequently exposed, at which point people are amazed, astounded, shocked!
The government is not necssarily combatting everything that is cruel and unnecessary.
I'm sorry if this is a bit ranty, but it upsets me a bit. I apologise if I have been too abrupt, but I am a member of some groups, and the stereotype is not true. Its like there's a whole seperate campaign against people that have an issue with this area and try to expose it.
Carrie - of course there are still terrible things that happen, and people should stand up for what they believe in. I disagree with the majority of those practices (although I definately AGREE with animal testing). I also agree with cutting chickens heads off without pain killers, as long as it's quick. I don't care if animals see other animals die before they are killed. It's preferential that they die quickly and as painlessly as possible, but death is traumatic, but they aren't going to remember it after they are dead. As for your dog reference (and please keep in mind that PETA thinks dog ownership is slavery, making you a slave owner), being someone's pet is very different than being someone's meal. Our anscestors spent thousands of years turning real animals into the cute, little cuddly things we call pets. Many of our bred creations would never make it out in the wild, and they have been bred to evoke emotions in humans and resemble human babies. I would fight for the right to put five thousand tumors into cat or pig brains in order to save my mother's life (and the lives of countless other humans.) I think that you probably would too. Wouldn't you say, take a pig artery if it could save the life of your mother or father? Or yourself?
There are things in life that disgust people, but being groos isn't the same as being morally bankrupt.
When I made my last comment, I was specifically referring to PETA as an organization and their unnescessary use of horrific imagery.
Sure, stand up for things that you find immoral, by all means. But why A. watch graphic clips of things that -are- already illegal/dealt with on the television and B. torture yourself with photographs? That forms a sort of cultish emotional desire to end these problems, instead of a rational, effective way to adress them.
For example, wouldn't it be much more effective to campagn lawmakers? Support organic farming? Give money to an organization you trust that -doesn't- bomb medical labs and harass the pound? Make a personal choice to only eat organic meat or be vegan/vegetarian (for emotional reasons)?
Those methods would be much more effective than being bombarded with graphic imagery with no facts behid it on the tube. "raising awareness" through shock tactics (better known as binding people into a cult with graphically reinforced social bonds and money donations) has nothing to do with "dealing with effectively."
I love animals. I have pets who I care well for, am into biology, and very seriously considered being a vetrinarian/marine zoologist. However, when it comes down to the choice between life of an animal and life/health of a person, I choose a member of my own species. Sure, it's preferential - but that's the way that nature works. If people are abusing animals with no human benefit (ex: blood letting, cock fighting, udder glueing, dog abusing, etc.) I say give them hell with the full force of the law.
Animals don't need our patronage, they are not humans. Animals eat other animals. Animals die in pain, cruelly, etc. But this is absoluetly necessary to nature, this constant, brutal compation and transfer of energy resources is necessary to the process of adaptation. Nature needs a place to carry out its business - a habitat. Because what good is it going to do if every single animal is "liberated" and doesn't have a place to live and eat (and consequently dies)? Nature is graphic and fraught with competition (all with good reason) and we are also animals. But, as our population increases exponentialy, are (hopefully) intelligent enough to recognize that we need to save some habitat for other animals to live in. It is much more important to me that thousands of species don't become extinct due to lack of habitat than that a dairy cow have a more pleasant life.
