MacNeil/Lehrer, PBS and realjohnboy - "By The People"

Thanks, panz. I have often wondered how the music business affects world economy. I would guess, to a greater degree than anyone can imagine.
Incidentally, your pictures in the gallery were fantastic. You are indeed a good-looking guy. I bring this up only because I have always been curious about the driving force behind those who provide services. Are we more interested in patronizing those establishments because of the level of performance, or because of the "I like what I see" factor?

Well, perhaps John of Virginia will take time off from his demanding schedule, and give us his reaction. <smile>

I was interested in the responses from those who look at the U.S. from other countries. Msolga and Cav were the only ones to comment thus far.

Brava, msolga!

Well whatdaya know. Somebody up there listened:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=2&u=/ap/20041011/ap_on_go_co/congress_rdp

Bravo, Osso!

Good evening...and thanks for the responses. I deliberately stepped back from participating for a couple of days in order to see if there was
any reaction.
Aquiunk posted first, suggesting that (and rjb paraphrases liberally) terrorists are criminal gangs marginalized through the cooperation of ineffectual governments and feeding on disorganization or despair. (Correct me please, Acq, if I have interpreted this wrongly). Mr Kerry seemed to make the same argument in the NY Times Magazine article on Sunday. Mr Bush's campaign responded that Kerry was trivializing the war on terrorism.
Msolga spoke of a utopian world where people weren't starving to death and could instead make a living. Some of you may know that, after VN, johnboy got itchyfeet and drifted for a few years, including two or three through Africa from Cairo to Capetown. (Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, Malawi, Mozambique etc).
If we, the west, had invested then in such things as electrification, water, education, health clinics, we and Africa would be much better off. Don't get me started on the AIDS crisis in Africa.
To close out this discussion-shifting to the jobs issue-Africa could probably grow cotton, for example, a lot more cheaply than we do in the US, but they can't compete with us because of the subsidies provided and tariffs imposed. On the other hand, cotton is, I hear, very stressful on the soil. Environmentally, it can cause a lot of damage.
Thanks, letty and cav for your responses. My head is spinning so I'll have to come back to your comments.

Should I borrow a tie for my appearance? It would be only the third time I've worn a tie in 8 years. -john-

Your summation of posters to your forum, and your personal travels and feelings about Africa are really appreciated. I have a friend in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and I started to send him school supplies. We have often discussed the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, but without international financial assistance, it's a losing battle. Bush's 15 billion promise made during his first SOUS never happened. Only a few million dollars have been delivered and used. I think we can help Africa with their agriculture, but here again, it will require some international organization for it to work. There was an interesting segment on t.v. recently about water pumps sold for $80 to Africans that have already helped them with raising crops. More of this kind of assistance goes a long way to help our brothers and sisters in Africa.

I'd feel more comfortable if you wore a bow tie J-boy.

rjb

No, I didn't know that. You are full of surprises! I'm impressed!
I fully agree on the lost opportunity of investment from the west ... what a difference that would have made! <sigh> To Africa AND the west.

RJB, that is mostly my position with one exception

These organizations are not marginalized, they feed off ineffectual government.


If my points on terrorism is Kerry's position, he has done a very poor job of articulating it. I have not heard him say that. My take on the current war of terrorism, comes from two sources. The first is Globalism, in the context of the spread of drug cartels into the Andes region of South America. This began with my brief unintended entanglement with the consequences of this spread. The second is an observation others have made and I have discussed on A2K that al Queda is morphing from a monolithic organization to a franchise organization. This is very much like other forms of globalized crime. Al Queda is as much a product of globalization as are drug cartels. And it responds to the same stimuli although on the surface it might seem very different. Below are three Internet sources that summarize my thinking in this area


Globalization is destroying society
Editorial from Processo 675, 30 August, 1995
(El Salvador)
"The rise in criminal activity is linked to another universal phenomenon, which is the globalization of social and economic relations. The forward progress of markets which favor the few and marginalize the immense majority of humanity is tearing apart societies and generating new inequalities. Unchecked consumerism and extreme individualism, unleashed by the marketplace, have considerably weakened the influence of the family, the community, churches, associations and even the State on individual citizens. Today, individuals are much more independent, but what they have gained in independence they have lost in terms of principles, values and vital reference points for human coexistence. Independence brings along a conviction that everything is permitted and everything is possible. It is the freedom of the marketplace taken to its final consequences, which are turning out to be fatal. The market has unleashed forces which are devouring its sponsors".
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/28/033.html

"World Community against the Globalization of Crime and Terrorism
Summary of WAAF Second International Conference
2004

"Most of speakers thought that antagonisms between developed and developing countries today are becoming more and more sharp. Growing polarization is a fertile field for terrorism. Attempts to extirpate terrorism by force lead to situations when terrorists turn from criminals into national heroes, fighters for social justice".
http://www.crime-research.org/news/2004/01/Mess2604.html

Globalization and crime.
The emerging role of international institutions
Fulvio Attina

"However, the crime group is not a unitary organization of rigidly subordinated groups. It is, instead, a network of homogeneous groups linked to one another by various forms of solidarity, complicity, and spurious hierarchical order. Such relations make very hard to fight crime organizations and put their action under control".
http://www.fscpo.unict.it/EuroMed/jmwp07.htm

Acq, I didn't look at the problems of drug, al Qaeda, and ineffectual governments in terms of globalization. I think most thought as I did that these problems were concentrated somewhat in Afghanistan and Iraq, but globalization of these problems makes sense. The biggest problem I see now is the fractured international community which deminishes our ability to have a real war against the globalized problems. As we have seen, the war on drugs is a complete failure, and it is now believed that over 70 percent of the drugs are cultivated in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda seems to be growing exponentially; not good for the world community.

Acq: My "marginalized through the cooperation of ineffectual governments" comment was stupid. I'm sure I had some point in mind but I can't decipher my notes. Sorry for mis-stating your ideas.

Back to the For The People forum for this query relating to I:A...Pre-emptive Strike Policy:
Would you agree that, in order to prevent future attacks, (1) the US should take military action against any country or group that we deem to be a threat, (2) strikes against terrorists groups that threaten us should be used but we should only attack other countries if we are sure they pose an imminent danger to us or (3) we must never engage in premptive miltary action. Doing so would encourage other countries to do the same.
(I paraphased the above from the PBS primer I received; I think I got the options toned right).

john

ps: a bow-tie? Never! It would just make my ears look even bigger than they are.

Ooh exciting!

Bookmarking and reading up ...

trying to catch up.....

By The People - Post Mortem

Good evening. So we had this discussion today and I would like to tell yall about it if you are interested (and even if you are not). johnboy

Well, I should think so, John of Virginia.

(how did your ears do...lol)

I swear I'm not trying to drive up my post-total by breaking this down into short spurts. It just seems that every teenager in the region is on Earthlink and we only have two access numbers. It's tough to stay connected on Saturday night when everyone wants to know what Brad said to Tiffany. Earthlink disconnects pretty frequently.

So we started at 9 am and finished at about 4:30 pm. As I was driving home I found myself thinking that it had been an interesting experience but also a bit disappointing.

The day got off to a rocky start with the 120 participants (out of 150 who had indicated they would come) trying to register in a space that was ill-designed for that purpose. Some frustrating minutes spent in long, wrong, lines.
We assembled in the theatre for the various introductions and welcomes. We saw some video that covered the topics in the outline above (including clips from Mr Bush and Mr Kerry from as late as the second debate talking about those issues).
Then we moved into 10 groups of about 12 people each to begin the discussions. More about that in a few. Thanks for your patience. -rjb-

Patiently waiting with great expectations.

(we''ll get to the ears part later, letty)

I couldn't help but notice that, as we made our way out of of the theatre and towards the classrooms, most of us were over 50 years old; perhaps 60. A gentleman at my table at lunch was, he said 80.
60 to 70% were women. Blacks were present probably in proportion to their population in our area, but I saw no hispanics or orientals.
The lack of young people made me pretty unhappy.

Bear with me for a minute here. Nimh may be the only one to appreciate this. The selection process for inviting folks to play was done by randomly dialing phone numbers in our region, doing the basic poll and then inviting some of them to participate by spending a day talking about things. There are several flaws inherent in this process. First, many young people today don't have regular phones, only cell phones. Those phone numbers can not (I am told) be called. And secondly, the participation rate comes down to a "self-selection" process. The disparity between men and women, if there was one, could be attributable to it being a Saturday, when there might be a really, really good game on.

Sorry for that long digression. My point is that I was disappointed at the lack of diversity. john

and while you relived your day, I wrote about my ancestral home. Isn't it odd, John, how minds diversify?

Frankly, I don't think the young care one bit about the upcoming election, and I really can't blame them. How lackluster it has all become.

and I will leave you and nimh to your cells.

Goodnight Johnboy <smile>

Well, my niece cares about it, she is about to turn seventeen.

I think the phone thing is a problem re assessment, as more and more people go to cells. I'd consider it if I trusted myself to keep my cell phone charged. Seems like a giant pain.

Listening, John....

Hmmm the phone thing might play a role, but the self-selection is more important, I would hazard a guess. Young people are interested in politics, at least here they are, but if you invite people to come up for a day to voice opinions, they're the first to say no, thanks. Go to any public forum and you'll see the same. Young people would have to be involved some other way. A muslim group in Rotterdam last year (or the year before) appealed to youngsters to send a protest text message, after some blatantly stereotyped TV programme on muslims - and they did so massively.