MacNeil/Lehrer, PBS and realjohnboy - "By The People"

I knew you when? Wahoo Wah

Let's see the first topic.

Bring it!

I for one would love a polite political discussion.

Waiting for that question, rjb.

Thank you pan, cav and msolga (all of whom I know from other topics on A2K) and john/nyc (whom I have never met before) for responding.
Another 30 folks have viewed this topic.

I must admit that I was a bit disappointed in the 8-page primer. There were so many important issues not addressed.
The material sent to me is copyrighted by PBS so I will present the questions in a summarized form. I hope that I can present an outline in an unbiased way. PBS did provide a link with the daunting address: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/btp/events/background-materials.html
Back in a few minutes. -rjb-

Oh, interesting rjb!!

(Remember re: views that it's not necessarily different people -- if 6 people view this five times each, that shows up as 30 views. Or 10 people 3 times each, or 8 people once and 16 people twice... well, you get the idea.)

and I am waiting, also.

Theres two more...smile

I: National Security-Looking Ahead. What Do We Need To Do To Be Successful In The War On Terrorism?
A: Preemptive Action: Does the war on terrorism require preemptive U.S. military action?
B: Working With Allies Or Going It Alone: What is the right balance to ensure our safety?
C: Civil Liberties: How do we build a balance between civil liberties and homeland security?
D: Spreading Democracy: Should it be a priority in the war on terrorism?

II: American Jobs In A Global Economy. What Do We Have To Do To Protect Or Grow American Jobs?
A: Trade: How do we approach trade in a way that will expand and secure U.S. jobs?
B: Outsourcing: Will restrctive policies help or hurt the U.S. economy?
C: Taxes: What is the best tax policy to help grow jobs and our economy?

I look forward to hearing from yall. Thank you for your interest. -rjb-

Probably be best to respond in order of appearance. I'll wait for those of you ahead of me.

Actually, there is no war on terrorism. What there is is a struggle between civilization and barbarism or perhaps more precisely order and nihlism. Declaring this a war elevates a pack of criminal gangs of divers goals and methods to the status of a quasi state. These criminal gangs, that range from the mundane such as drug smuggling to the truly terrifying such as al Queda share a similarity in that they all feed off disorder and discontent. The policies of the Bush administration contributes to the disorder and feed the discontent. These ganges were not invented on 9/11, they have been around for a long time. They can not be defeated, only suppressed and driven to a position of marginality where they will not longer by a threat or of major concern. This can be done only through the cooperation of major nation/state, most of whom were traditionally out allies.

Whatever you call it, "War" or "Struggle", there is danger in using broad brush strokes such as "civilization vs barbarism".
More important is to recognize the Muslim backlash as a further struggle of the poor nations against colonialism and the manipulation of natural resources and cheap manpower for the furtherance of Western economic well-being.

It behooves us to combat terrorism with steely resolve, a firm military and a coalition of nations willing to tread the long road towards peace and prosperity for all. We can no longer afford to be the pariah of a world looking for leadership and hope.

A steely resolve is crucial but a military response is only a small part of the solution and can be counter productive. These gangs feed of disorganization and despair. The answer to the threats these gangs present is found in solutions to these problems. Iraq is an example of the wrong kind of response. It simply created more of the conditions that feed these gangs.

agreed

I'd opt for a more compassionate & constructive approach to the poor, oppressed & wretched of the planet. Imagine if all the zillions spent on making war were spent on aid to the most needy places on earth. Or even a fraction of that amount. It would be a revolution!
For people to have hope they need to have full stomaches, for starters. They might need assistance to learn to support themselves & they need education. People who lead reasonably productive & fulfilling lives do not feel they "have nothing to lose". People who have self esteem & a purpose in life don't dream of the reward of the perfect after-life of the martyr/terrorist. People who are educated can think for themselves & not be so easily manipulated by their leaders & their agendas.

Have I steered too far from the topic? A bit Utopian perhaps? I sincerely believe so much evil stems from oppression & ignorance. Work toward remedying those evils, rather than trying to control the "terrorists" by force. Force doesn't work. It just escalates the violence. "Terrorists" use their bodies us assault weapons in retaliation to the sophisticated weapons of the wealthy countries which oppress them. Remove the reasons for anyone to become a terrorist by giving them dignity & a purpose in life.

Sorry that was so convoluted, rjb! I know what I meant, it just came out that way! It's late, too.

A: First point, a pre-emptive strike can only succeed with an exit plan. This apparently was not thought of.

B: Second point, it is never a good political move to piss off the world.

C: Third point, a real bugbear. Immigrants are the heart of America, really. However, one should also consider that America was established as a conquered country. I don't see any evidence yet that suggests Americans have any feelings or care for native populations. I supported the invasion of Afghanistan vigorously after 9-11. I even kowtowed to the invasion of Iraq, at the start. I have different opinions now, regarding Iraq. This connects with my opinion on point two. I have no problem with removing dictators, but there are such things as 'rules of engagement', which should be respected. Yes, the terrorists don't follow them, but neither does the US. Tit for tat? I question this logic.

D: Fourth point. Regarding "spreading democracy", it is a noble pursuit, but hubris. The real problem with America, IMO, is that they really don't bother to learn much about other cultures before they decide to invade. Here is the formula, from my perspective: attack = imminent threat = war = good for business.

Part II:

I will avoid the tax question, because I don't really know much about it. In summary, restrictive policies regarding immigration and outsourcing will indeed hurt the American economy. The USA is currently living in a culture of fear and paranoia, and the government doesn't seem to be giving any attention to 'taking care of their own'. America is polarized, and both parties are scrambling to win the votes of both the religious right and the liberal thinkers. I don't blame the public for being so confused about who to vote for.

Just to add, regarding trade, keep friends.

Sorry if I'm convoluted as well. :wink:

I am trying to visualize exactly what I would say if these questions were personally put to me.:

A. The war on terrorism requires preemptive U.S. military action ONLY when all the information is collected and studied thoroughly by the military and the intelligence community. Plunging into war with no particular strategy other than "Let's get 'em" is not sound.

B.We should work with allies through diplomacy and by thoroughly examining each country's stake in achieving our common goals.

C.Building a balance between civil liberties and homeland security is a delicate thing. A good American citizen does not need to be insecure in his own country. America or any country IS its people and NOT its politicians. The right to privacy and the right to personal choices are among our most sacred precepts and should never be sacrificed, because history shows that Americans are willing to relinquish creature comforts if required, to further a genuine cause, and the same should be required of our leaders.

D. Representative democracy is a great way to live anywhere in the world, but in the furthering of it, the U.S. needs to understand and accept the diverse cultures of this planet and insinuate democracy only as it does not run rough shod over the ingrained inheritance of generations.

In part two of the QandA. I would like to address the following problems:

To me, education is the way to expand and secure U.S. jobs. That having been said, we need to examine the motives of giant corporations and exactly what THEIR goals are. There will always be scavengers in times of war, be they gangs or CEO's. Supporting child labor, etc. in order to make a profit is not what capitalism should be about.

I truly don't know about outsourcing such as tariffs, etc. So I won't comment.

Now for the ticklish part--taxes and our tax structure. To me it's very simple. CLOSE THE LOOPHOLES. Each person should be required to pay HIS fair share, whether that person be a corporation or an individual.

One final comment. We all, and I mean ALL should moderate idealism with a certain pragmatism, for therein lies the strength of any nation.

Okay, I'll stop now.

Nice Letty