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Elections in Germany update:No turn to the right, after all!

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 03:52 pm
Hardliner, very conservative.

He's (still) the prime minister of Bavaria with it's "Laptops and Lederhosen culture": booming high-tech industry, the lowest unemployment rate in the country, and a love of the state's conservative tradition.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 03:55 pm
Nice summary, Walter.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 03:58 pm
old europe wrote:
Nice summary, Walter.


Especially when you consider, how much much I love him.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:02 pm
Yes! Given that, quite matter-of-factly.
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:18 pm
So it seems that they have patched together something that may work for a spell. But pretty tenuous, You say two years, walter. Is there the structure for a vote of no confidence or whatever that could cause this to collapse sooner? I can't see this coalition as being very unified for very long.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 07:09 pm
walter wrote :
"Especially when you consider, how much much I love him. "

will walter "have to kiss and make up" ? would just love to see that (LOL !). hbg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 10:36 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Is there the structure for a vote of no confidence or whatever that could cause this to collapse sooner?


This is explained nicely at wikipedia .
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realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Oct, 2005 03:51 pm
Thank you, walter, for that link. I have read it two or three times but will have to try again later to catch the full ramifications.
The current coalition seems to me to be unworkable (am I wrong?) but there is no way to change anything unless the majority of the legislators can agree on a sucessor under Article 67, which seems unlikely (am I wrong?). So don't you end up with a dysfucntional government, with assorted ministers owing their first loyalty to their party and not to the effective administering of the country?
And I come back to, as I alluded to before, the notion of secrecy regarding the dealings between parties. You have a very aggressive press. How do they stomach that notion? Is it breached?
(You realize, walter et al, that johnboy isn't criticizing other people's systems. I am genuinely interested in learning more about how things work. johnboy is off tonight-virtually not physically-to Liberia. Can a charismatic 20-something soccer player...)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Oct, 2005 12:46 am
This system worked well all the time we had - which is more than 50 years now.

And I'm sure, it works well in other countries with similar systems as well - or as bad, as you might say.

We didn't have 'Israelian' or 'Italian' situations here at all - but might be, this election was the first view of that.
However, here's the (voting) citizen the county's sovereign - so we got, what we wanted.


We might get difficulties with the "policy-making power" of the chnacellor (Article 64 and 65 of the Basic Law), since the CSU and SPD don't think, Merkel has got it in such a coalition.
But, IMHO, this point is overstressed, since ther are always discussions before the Chnacellor decides something "alone".

Problems will be similar as in the UK, namely that the party basis are not in line with the policy of their govermental leaders.
But this is part of democracy as well.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Oct, 2005 08:23 am
While Schröder has now firmly ruled out taking up any post in the new government, the SPD named their eight ministers:

Germany's SPD Reveals Cabinet Members
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2005 10:30 am
This might be of minor interest ...

Müntefering to Step Down as SPD Leader

... but it took me some time to stomach that Crying or Very sad
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2005 01:08 pm
Looks now as if Stoiber stays in Bavaria and we might get new elections in March ...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 02:59 am
From the "Rheinische Post"

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6659/clipboard11uz.jpg

Quote:
Several German dailies say the decision by the leader of the Social Democratic Party, Franz Muentefering, not to seek re-election as head of the party following the defeat of his favoured candidate in a vote to elect a new party general-secretary raises the possibility of fresh elections.

Die Welt says talks between the SPD and the CDU/ CSU on establishing a coalition government have been plunged into crisis.

"Anything seems possible, including fresh elections, which none of the big parties wants," it says.

The paper sees the development as a "sharp shift to the left" which could lead to the party rejecting any coalition deal regarded as too "liberal".

"The SPD has become the big unknown quantity in the coalition poker game," it says.

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung says the SPD has been plunged into a "serious crisis".

It describes Mr Muentefering as a leader who enjoyed the trust of the rank and file "like nobody else before him in recent times" but adds that his party was unhappy about his domineering role in the coalition talks.

The paper adds that the leader of the Christian Democratic Union, Chancellor-designate Angela Merkel, also finds herself in a difficult position.

"She is putting together a coalition whose future has become extremely uncertain after today's events," it says.

But the Berliner Zeitung believes that the talks on "a grand coalition" are still on track, adding that neither the Social Democrats nor the CDU/CSU see any other solution.

"The negotiations are proceeding as planned, Muentefering's resignation has nothing to do with Angela Merkel or the CDU/CSU and nothing to do with disagreements over policy," it believes.


Compilation by the BBC
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 06:14 am
How long can Germany have no government?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:04 am
We have got one: the old government still is the 'acting' government.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:27 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
How long can Germany have no government?

A month, according to the constitution. The month started a few weeks after the actual election because the election had to be delayed in one district. Personally, I wouldn't mind if the federal government just went home for the rest of the term. I doubt many people would miss it.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:33 am
that would be fun. just think of all the things you could do without a government telling you not to do it.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:34 am
Thomas wrote:

I doubt many people would miss it.
But certainly many would notice the thus resulting even 'better' chaos Laughing

Thomas wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
How long can Germany have no government?

A month, according to the constitution.


The 17th of November would be the earliest day to elect a new chancellor...

The government has been dismissed already be the Federal President and he asked them to stay as long until the new chancellor is elected.

http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/ap/20051018/16/3765278051.jpg
German President Horst Koehler, right, and outgoing German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder pose for photographers after Koehler handed out the dismissal documents to Schroeder and his cabinet members in Berlin on Tuesday, Oct. 18, 2005. (AP Photo/Herbert Knosowski)


[The month, mentioned by Thomas, is the period during which the parliament (Bundestag) has to get together the first time, at least as I remember.)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 08:01 am
Well, I think, my opinion wasn't that wrong - at least, it's shared by the media Laughing

The Basic Law (Grundgesetz) says

Quote:
Article 63 [Election and appointment of the Federal Chancellor]

(1) The Federal Chancellor shall be elected by the Bundestag without debate on the proposal of the Federal President.

(2) The person who receives the votes of a majority of the Members of the Bundestag shall be elected. The person elected shall be appointed by the Federal President.

(3) If the person proposed by the Federal President is not elected, the Bundestag may elect a Federal Chancellor within fourteen days after the ballot by the votes of more than one half of its Members.

(4) If no Federal Chancellor is elected within this period, a new election shall take place without delay, in which the person who receives the largest number of votes shall be elected. If the person elected receives the votes of a majority of the Members of the Bundestag, the Federal President must appoint him within seven days after the election. If the person elected does not receive such a majority, then within seven days the Federal President shall either appoint him or dissolve the Bundestag.



I think, Thomas might have thought of this:

Quote:
Article 39 [Convening and legislative term]
[(1) ...]

(2) The Bundestag shall convene no later than the thirtieth day after the elections are held.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 08:19 am
You are right, Walter. I confused the time at which the Bundestag shall convene with the time at which the new chancellor and his cabinet have to be sworn in. My mistake. (By the way, did you find any date at which the president has to propose a new chancellor? Köhler couldn't hold it off forever, could he?)
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