Elections in Germany update:No turn to the right, after all!

He could, indeed, wait until .... well, until the pressure gets too high, or the political climate would became to hot/cold.

However, any Federal President is thought by the fathers of the Basic Law to have some polical feeling and instict: he will propose one, when he thinks that this person gets the majority ... or when he thinks, Article 63 might solve it.


Momentarily, he really will have to wait. I doubt that November 17 can NOW be the fixed date for election. (But who knows NOW? At least, it seems, you won't get a new figure in the Prinz-Carl-Palais :wink: )

I read about Muentefering's withdrawal from the party post in today's Sueddeutsche. It took me reading all the articles before I figgered out what actually happened, since I'd missed the news when it broke out.

From what I gathered, Muente had handpicked a sucessor for the general secretary post: a man who was very loyal to him but whose qualifications impressed few in the party. Most of the party representations from the states made it clear they would vote against him and for Nahle; Muente didn't speak out to say he'd resign, in that case, and the vote followed, in which Nahles was duly elected; Meuntefering resigns.

Does Muentefering's behaviour strike anyone else as a bit childish or spoiled? If I cant have it exactly my way (because a majority simply doesnt like my candidate), I'm gonna just throw the towel in?

<frowns>

Generally, the leader of a party handpick" his/her general secretary - that's ex vergbatim regulateted in the statutes - not only those of the SPD but in others as well (the idea behind this is that the general secretary is a kind of his mouthpiece for the basis.

A vote against his candidate can be seen as a vote against him - at least for those, he understood his character and (Westphalian) mentality.
(I made once - when he was minister and party leader in our state a 30 mins live tv interview with him: I know, what I'm speaking about :wink: ).

There will be a new general secretary à la gusto of ... Platzek, since he didn't vote for Nahles either.

Besides, Nahles wasn't elected at all: that would have happened in Karlrsruhe in 10 days. This was 'only' the voting for the proposal of the Execute Committtee.


Some more infos about the left (Nahles) in the SPD here at their website

Well, but a party is not a circle of friends, where people are expected to be able to just kind of second-guess someone's intentions on the basis of "knowing how he is"... That sounds a bit dilettantistic to me.


OK. But - this is what I gather from the Sueddeutsche.

Middle last week, Muente insists on Wasserhovel, while also airing the suggestion of just abolishing the post of general-secretary, which would also leave Wasserhovel as de facto strong man at the party office. A majority of Socialdemocratic chairs from the states announces their resistance to the proposal, and openly express their support for Nahles, instead.

On Friday, Muente faxes his decision to propose Wasserhovel as new secretary general anyway. The "Kampfabstimmung" between Wasserhovel and Nahles becomes a reality. But when asked, Muente in the weekend says that "the winner will be the candidate of the Executive Committee and will have wide support", which was interpreted as meaning he'd be able to live with Nahles too.

Then on Monday, on the Vorstandssitzung, a majority of the speakers speaks out for Nahles. "Some 15 members speak up. There can be hardly any doubt left about the result of the vote, scheduled to take place next." Muentefering still says nothing. The Committee proceeds to vote. "The result: Nahles won, "haushoch" (toweringly)."

And then Muente says, OK in that case I'll resign.

Like I said, to me he comes across as someone who thought he could just push his will through, ignored all signs that the Executive didnt think his pick was capable enough, pushed it through anyway, and when he then predictably lost, mopingly threw in the towel, "well, if youre not going to do exactly what I want, even when you think its not good, I'm just gonna go". Seems childish and spoiled to me. I mean, even Bush knew when to withdraw Miers...

I always thought of Müntefering as an apparatschik. It must have been surprising for him to notice that now that he's running the apparatus, it develops a mind of its own. Good riddance -- I much prefer Matthias Platzeck, his successor.

Changed the party, Thomas :wink:

I've met Müntefering a couple of times, on party and ministry meetings: most (if not all) thought, he's exactly the opposite to an apparatschik (especially the civil servants in the health ministry got their troubles how he handled the stuff "manually".

That might have changed in the last years.

looks to me that germany will have an increase in the "value added tax" more quickly than a new chancellor ... (i'm sure it'll make my brother-in-law in hamburg deliriously happy to pay a higher tax !). hbg

ps. i also note that there will be no increase in the pension for 2006 - crying !

Well, I don't think, since usually such new laws won't be decided before we got a new government.

However, this is one of the only things (if not THE only) I had agreed with the conservatives (not only because we've got by far the lowest value added tax in the EU).

i read that the proposed SDP vice chancellor(?) is talking of a 20 % VAT. in ontario we have a 7% federal sales tax plus a 8% provincial sales tax (most food items are tax free). since the taxes are not allowed to be included in the price shown, there is always plenty of grumbling about the "darned" sales tax.
i just have my invoice for a digital camera and accessories in front of me :
subtotal $283.74
GST 19.86
PST 22.70
---------
total $326.30

so you usually have to add 15% to the advertised price. many europeans find it quite annoying to see one price advertised and having to pay a higher price once they arrive at the cash-register.
buying a restaurant meal is even more confusing; a $20 meal usually costs you $26 - 15% tax plus 15% tip. hbg

ps. of course i bought a camara with a zeiss lens to help the german industry !!!

Actually, it seems the first proposed 18% VAT (the conservatives always wanted a higher VAT than the actual 16% - the SPD always opposed.) might really go up to 20% - 'good' European standard.

VAT is always included in prices here (and all over Europe, I think).

We had had three state elctions today, in the southwestern state of Baden-Württemberg, in the (neighbouring, a bit north) Rhineland-Palatinate and in the central/eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt.

Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats and their Social Democrat allies both emerged as winners from today's three state elections that were the first test of voter support for the great coalition, provisory final results show.

The Christian Democrats retained power in the southwestern state of Baden-Wuerttemberg:

The Social Democrats, Merkel's coalition partner at federal level, held on to the state of Rhineland-Palatinate with an outright majority.

In the eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, the two parties may form a coalition mirroring Merkel's administration in Berlin.

interesting Walter thanks. so perhaps the Great Coalition will be more permanent than you originally thought?

Ehem ... yes

One additional result: it was the lowest turnout of voters with state elections we ever had. (44% in Saxonia-Anhalt only!)

Certainly in the East German states, where nobody wants a coalition with the ex-communists. (At least everyone pretends that they don't.)

And in West German states nobody really wants a coalition with the liberals - at least not THE PEOPLE :wink:

Are you saying we're out in Baden-Württemberg too?

While I make no apologies for being an FDP voter (after Möllemann's death anyway), and while I regret that we're out in Rheinland-Pfalz, I can live with a Germany where the FDP is temporarily isolated as long as the PDS remains isolated, too. (Permanently if possible -- it's certainly a blessing that the SPD was too weak to make a red-red coalition work.)