Religion Is For The Weak And Ignorant Masses

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How is it possible that in America of all places, where information is so readily available, people still believe in ancient religions? Religion is for the ignorant and weak masses. It is for the ignorant, because once an intelligent person has studied a religion and it's history thoroughly, one always finds the numerous assumptions and evidence, which give credence to the religion's absurdity (if not disproving it altogether). But for people who are not even slightly skeptical, it is easy for those defending the religion to persuade the ignorant masses into being able to cover the gaping holes in the religion by a concept called "faith." It is for the weak, because they are unable to bear the idea that we are in this world with absolutely no clear answers or purpose. Religion gives them these answers; it gives them their purposes. The weak are too scared to think for themselves. They are too scared of the idea that there may be no life after death. They are horrified by the idea that they may be punished for eternity after death. Alas, there is an answer to restrain these horrible thoughts and emotions: religion.
The final thought: What is faith? Is there need for a faith for anyone who is intelligent and mentally strong? First, faith is nothing but the abstract concept of thinking something is true with no evidence to prove it's validity. Secondly, as many great philosophers have shown throughout history, the code of ethics that is derived from a faith is needless. Religion is not needed for a society to be ethical. If a simple utilitarian approach is used, society would be much more ethical and tolerant of people's differences than the societies which base there moral code on a specific religion or belief. For the intelligent and mentally strong, faith is pointless, but perhaps it is helpful for the ignorant and weak masses.

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How to Win Friends and Influence People . . . am i right? Come on, you old charmer, tell us your secret . . .

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Chill this person out, Sentana. Please.

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that's why they call it faith....

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Setanta wrote:

How to Win Friends and Influence People . . . am i right? Come on, you old charmer, tell us your secret . . .

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Re: Religion Is For The Weak And Ignorant Masses
Voltoza writes:

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How is it possible that in America of all places, where information is so readily available, people still believe in ancient religions? Religion is for the ignorant and weak masses.

He or she then writes:

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If a simple utilitarian approach is used, society would be much more ethical and tolerant of people's differences than the societies which base there moral code on a specific religion or belief. For the intelligent and mentally strong, faith is pointless, but perhaps it is helpful for the ignorant and weak masses

So a simple utilitarian approach is best, one that is tolerant eh? I find it odd for you to make the above claim and then become intolerant of peole who hold a different view than you about religion. You claim "tolerance" while in the same breath claiming all who have "faith in a religion" are "ignorant and weak" Is that ethical and tolerant?

Tony

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Voltoza--

Welcome to A2K! I can understand your opinion. I delved into the same line of thought several years ago, when I was questioning my spiritual beliefs.

Ancient Eqyptians rulers, and most likely plenty of others did, dicker around with their 'gods' stories' to manipulate the masses. But, I do think one must give believers the same credence as non-believers expect... That their beliefs are their own, and they are entitled to them.

Some people think complete randomness can't explain the human biological machine, and many other miracles of this earth are just too incredible to have been some cosmic accident. The more I learn about biology, psychology, history... the stronger my faith becomes.

I just don't believe man is the greatest intellect in the universe, or existence.

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Hey, Volt....welcome to A2K.

Look up the word "paragraphs" in a dictionary....especially if you are going to offer more comments berating others for their ignorance.

Oh, by the way...

...I agree that religion is for the weak and frightened, but I know a lot of weak, frightened intelligent people.

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Are either of you acquainted with Christians who are neither weak, nor frightened?

How would one describe 'frightened' or 'weak' as it relates to this conversation?

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Lash wrote:

Are either of you acquainted with Christians who are neither weak, nor frightened?

How would one describe 'frightened' or 'weak' as it relates to this conversation?

I don't know that I've ever met a Christian I did not consider frightened of the unknown and of their god...although damn near every Christian I've ever asked has claimed not to be frightened of their god.

There is precious little reason to accept that claim...especially if one takes the time to ask a few questions.

As for weak...well...

...being frightened of the unknown is, in my opinion, a sign of weakness...so I guess I consider most of the Christians I've met to be weak (after a fashion).

Why do you ask?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Lash wrote:
Are either of you acquainted with Christians who are neither weak, nor frightened?

How would one describe 'frightened' or 'weak' as it relates to this conversation?

I don't know that I've ever met a Christian I did not consider frightened of the unknown and of their god...although damn near every Christian I've ever asked has claimed not to be frightened of their god.

There is precious little reason to accept that claim...especially if one takes the time to ask a few questions.

As for weak...well...

...being frightened of the unknown is, in my opinion, a sign of weakness...so I guess I consider most of the Christians I've met to be weak (after a fashion).

Why do you ask?

here's one that is neither freightened or weak

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husker wrote:

here's one that is neither freightened or weak

Well...I'm gonna assume the spelling error was unintentional...and that you were trying to tell us you are not frightened.

So....you claim you are not frightened of your god...or of the unknown.

Are you really certain of that?

I suspect you are frightened.

Let's test it.

Let us hear you tell your god to screw off...to stop being such a dipshyt...to stop being so goddam offended by nearly everything humans do...and to get off our backs.

Let us hear you tell your god that you don't agree with him that slavery is, or ever was, a reasonable, decent, moral thing to have. Let us hear you tell your god that he is full of shyt to have instructed people to stone recalcitrant children to death...or to stone homosexuals to death.

Let us hear you tell your god that you think some of the things he said to Moses sucks...big time.

C'mon, Husker, show us you are not afraid of the barbaric monster.

Let's hear you tell him you don't care that he may send you to Hell to suffer excruciating, unending torture for all the rest of eternity.

I'd love to hear you do that, Husker, because I truly want to meet that first really non-frightened Christian.

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ah, a sinner in the hands of an angry god is it then? loved that sermon. Possibly the best sermon to come out of the protestant ethic.

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They are already under a sentence of condemnation to hell. They do not only justly deserve to be cast down thither, but the sentence of the law of God, that eternal and immutable rule of righteousness that God has fixed between him and mankind, is gone out against them, and stands against them; so that they are bound over already to hell. John 3:18. "He that believeth not is condemned already." So that every unconverted man properly belongs to hell; that is his place; from thence he is, John 8:23. "Ye are from beneath:" And thither he is bound; it is the place that justice, and God's word, and the sentence of his unchangeable law assign to him.

They are now the objects of that very same anger and wrath of God, that is expressed in the torments of hell. And the reason why they do not go down to hell at each moment, is not because God, in whose power they are, is not then very angry with them; as he is with many miserable creatures now tormented in hell, who there feel and bear the fierceness of his wrath. Yea, God is a great deal more angry with great numbers that are now on earth: yea, doubtless, with many that are now in this congregation, who it may be are at ease, than he is with many of those who are now in the flames of hell.
So that it is not because God is unmindful of their wickedness, and does not resent it, that he does not let loose his hand and cut them off. God is not altogether such an one as themselves, though they may imagine him to be so. The wrath of God burns against them, their damnation does not slumber; the pit is prepared, the fire is made ready, the furnace is now hot, ready to receive them; the flames do now rage and glow. The glittering sword is whet, and held over them, and the pit hath opened its mouth under them.

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Amen, brother Dys, Amen!

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Frank Apisa wrote:

I suspect you are frightened.

Let's test it.

Let us hear you tell your god to screw off...to stop being such a dipshyt...to stop being so goddam offended by nearly everything humans do...and to get off our backs. [quote]Never I love and respect him to much for that

[/b]

Let us hear you tell your god that you don't agree with him that slavery is, or ever was, a reasonable, decent, moral thing to have. Let us hear you tell your god that he is full of shyt to have instructed people to stone recalcitrant children to death...or to stone homosexuals to death.
[quote]What I can say is I don't always understand the will of God but I wait to understand this things of suffering and pain. I seek to learn the will of God but know it may not be revealed until His perfect time[/quote]

Let us hear you tell your god that you think some of the things he said to Moses sucks...big time. [quote]That's not going to happen either[/quote]

C'mon, Husker, show us you are not afraid of the barbaric monster.
[quote]How can I be afraid of a God that laid down his Son and Himself to offer me a place with him in the end?[/quote]

Let's hear you tell him you don't care that he may send you to Hell to suffer excruciating, unending torture for all the rest of eternity.
[quote]I believe in his promises - not worried[/quote]

I'd love to hear you do that, Husker, because I truly want to meet that first really non-frightened Christian.

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there are more than you are willing to admit

[/quote]

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Yeah, Husker, I didn't think you would.

There's a lot more to "I don't fear my god" than merely saying the words.

MY GUESS: Every one of you is scared beyond comprehension.

And well you should be.

The god you "believe" in is quite barbaric.

If I ever "believed" in it, I'd be scared shytless.

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The Bible actually stipulates that you should be a frightened Christian through it's copious references to fearing your god.

Psalm 111:10

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Proverbs 9:10

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Proverbs 16:6

Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for; through the fear of the LORD a man avoids evil.

Proverbs 8:13

The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Isaiah 8:13

13 The LORD Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread,

Job 28:28

And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Jeremiah 5:22

Should you not fear me?" declares the LORD . "Should you not tremble in my presence? I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it.

Job 23:13-16

13 "But he stands alone, and who can oppose him? He does whatever he pleases. 14 He carries out his decree against me, and many such plans he still has in store. 15 That is why I am terrified before him; when I think of all this, I fear him. 16 God has made my heart faint; the Almighty has terrified me.

2 Corinthians 5:11

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Psalm 76:4,7

4 Thou art more glorious and excellent than the mountains of prey. 7 Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry?

Psalm 34:11

Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

Psalm 89:7

God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

In case you want Jesus himself advocating the fearful Christian:

Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:4-5

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

I got tired of looking them up, and found a list here:

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Fear And Blessings
Ps 25:12-14 (NEB) If there is any man who fears the Lord, he shall be shown the path that he should choose; he shall enjoy lasting prosperity, and his children after him shall inherit the land. The Lord confides his purposes to those who fear him, and his covenant is theirs to know.

Prov 14:26-27 (NIV) He who fears the Lord has a secure fortress, and for his children it will be a refuge. The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, turning a man from the snares of death.

Ps 34:9 (NEB) Fear the Lord, all you his holy people; for those who fear him lack nothing.

Prov 19:23 (NEB) The fear of the Lord is life; he who is full of it will rest untouched by evil.

Fear And Punishment
Rom 11:22 (Phi) You must try to appreciate both the kindness and the strict justice of God.

One of the ways we fear God is to fear punishment. This kind of godly fear will taper off as we are perfected in love. But for now, the fear of God will keep us from evil.
1 Jn 3:2 (NIV) Dear friends, now we are children of God...

Prov 22:15 (NIV) Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

Prov 3:11-12 (NEB) My son, do not spurn the Lord's correction, or take offense at his reproof; for those who he loves the Lord reproves, and he punishes a favorite son.

Ps 23:4 (NIV) ...your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Fear And Love

The fear of the Lord may be the beginning of wisdom, but the end is love. Love is our hope, our goal, our sure destiny as believers. If we are obedient, we will get close to it while still in this world. In the meantime, we fear now, because none of us is yet without sin or perfect in love.
1 Jn 4:17-18 (Jer) Love will come to its perfection in us when we can face the day of Judgment without fear; because even in this world we become as he is. In love there can be no fear, but fear is driven out by perfect love: because to fear is to expect punishment, and anyone who is afraid is still imperfect in love.

1 Pet 1:17 (RSV) And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile.

Ps 118:4 (NIV) Let those who fear the LORD say: "His love endures forever."

The Wrong Kind Of Fear: Shrinking Back

"Too good to be true," we say. This saying illuminates a deep human wound, for we have been burned by every one of our false gods and false loves and false hopes, or soon will be. Since everything else but God really is a sham, our instincts have been trained into suspicion. We hold back, we hedge, we plot our retreat, we lower our expectations. So when we encounter God--who alone is worthy of our trust--we shrink back in the one moment, with the one person, in the one hope that we should abandon ourselves to. Indeed, our wound is serious. Who will heal us?

The Terrifying Love Of God
Phil 2:12-13 (NIV) ...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

We should not fear that God will let us down, or that He is not faithful, or just, or forgiving. In fact, His intense determination to make us holy (so that we can be with Him forever) is cause for the right kind of godly fear: that He will NOT quit sanctifying us when, in our opinion, we are good enough. God is the ultimate perfectionist, and He will get what He wants. And if that is us, it is fearful to realize just how far He will go. He is the potter, and He intends vessels of holiness. No, we need not fear that God will fail us or give up on us, but rather that He is indeed faithful to finish what He has started.
Heb 10:31 (KJV) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

To Encounter The Living God, Then And Now
Heb 12:18-24 (Phi) You have not had to approach things which your senses could experience as they did in the old days--flaming fire, black darkness, rushing wind and out of it a trumpet-blast, a voice speaking human words. So terrible was that voice that those who heard it begged and prayed that it might say no more. For what it had already commanded was more than they could bear... So fearful was the spectacle that Moses cried out, "I am terrified and tremble!" No... You have drawn near to God, the judge of all, to the souls of good men made perfect, and to Jesus, mediator of a new agreement, to that cleansing blood which tells a better story than the blood of Abel.

Heb 12:25-29 (Phi) So be sure you do not refuse to hear the voice that speaks. For if they who refused to hear those who spoke to them on earth did not escape, how little chance of escape is there for us if we refuse to hear the One who speaks from Heaven. Then his voice shook the earth, but now he promises: "Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven." This means that in this final "shaking" all that is impermanent will be removed, that is, everything that is merely "made", and only the unshakable things will remain. Since then, we have been given a kingdom that is "unshakable", let us serve God with thankfulness in the ways which please him, but always with reverence and holy fear. For it is perfectly true that our God is a burning fire.

Ps 19:9 (NIV) The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever.

Mike Yaconelli: "We have defanged the tiger of truth. We have tamed the lion... The tragedy of modern faith is that we no longer are capable of being terrified."
Acts 5:13 (NIV) No one else dared join them, even though they were highly regarded by the people.

Mike Yaconelli: "I would like to suggest that the Church become a place of terror again; a place where God continually has to tell us, "Fear not"; a place where our relationship with God is not a simple belief or a doctrine or theology, it is God's burning presence in our lives. I am suggesting that the tame God of relevance be replaced by the God whose very presence shatters our egos into dust, burns our sin into ashes, and strips us naked to reveal the real person within. The Church needs to become a gloriously dangerous place where nothing is safe in God's presence except us. Nothing--including our plans, our agendas, our priorities, our politics, our money, our security, our comfort, our possessions, our needs.

"Our world is... longing to see people whose God is big and holy and frightening and gentle and tender... and ours; a God whose love frightens us into His strong and powerful arms where He longs to whisper those terrifying words, 'I love you.'"

God himself tells Christians to be positively terrified of him.

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And it is working!

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from from the above link

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Jer 5:22 (NIV) "Should you not fear me?" declares the Lord. "Should you not tremble in my presence?"

In Hebrew, yirah (Jon 1:16, Ps 90:11), yare (above, Mal 3:16) and pachad (Job 3:25a, Ps 119:120) mean reverent fear, terror, or dread, normally translated simply fear. There are other words in Hebrew for mere respect, reverence, or honor, such as kabad (Ex 20:12). In Greek fear/terror is phobo (Mat 28:4,1 Pet 2:17c), where reverence or honor is timao (1 Pet 2:17a/d).

With this distinction in both Hebrew and Greek, some still assert that "fear merely means reverence." As if God through His Spirit could not select the right word hundreds of times! Some would prefer to believe this than to understand that God really ought to be feared.

Why is it we will not accept the fear of God? Why do we try to "explain away" the fear of God in Scripture? What is it in our unconscious minds that creeps up when the Spirit leads us into the revelation of the fear of God?

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Religion Is For The Weak And Ignorant Masses

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