JLN - I think you are right about a lot of people here. They love to share here just to get high-fives from others.
I write to try to persuade those who may not see things my way. But you make a very good point in that I am probably COMPLETELY wasting my time. Those who disagree with me do not consider anything I write except in so far as is necessary to try to offer a knee-jerk argument to it. (That's not to say that some of those arguments aren't good ones, just that they never consider the possibility of agreement.)
Which makes me seriously consider the time I spend here.
i am quite comfortable being here, i have no need to convince anyone of anything and find that others offering different opinions help me to clarify my own thoughts often times new views that open up my understanding. I also find that the majority of participants prefer to discuss points of view without impuning the intelligence of those with whom they disagree. i would also say that i have great respect for the vast majority that i often disagree with. when i am respected by others its easy to respect them.
truth
I must add that my efforts to express my views are really ways of expressing to myself what I think and feel. It's a major function of a2k and abuzz (another, is to know wonderful people). I agree with Dyslexia (as usual) that every participant here is worthy of real (not just obligatory) respect. There are no dummies so far. Indeed, religionists and political conservatives participating here are almost always interesting and insightful. As a liberal I would rather talk to an intelligent conservative than a knee-jerk liberal. Liberalism is not a Doctrine for me; it is an attitude--a set of humanistic and relativistic values--toward the world. And as I've observed, non-doctrinaire conservatives often reflect these values--despite their political ideology.
Interesting perspective from two sides that well document efforts and desires!
truth
TrespassersWill, Please don't quit. You are not completly wasting your time. People who do not agree with your arguments at the time of a debate ARE, nevertheless, exposed to the truths as you see them. I merely want to reflect my views for myself, my fellow liberally minded AND conservative A2Kers. We would undoubtedly be worse off if we did not expose ourselves to viewpoints that oppose ours, particularly if they are presented civilly so that we do not oppose the arguments mainly because of the behavioral style of the arguers. So, TW, you can see that we liberals also need your participation.
I go along with JLNobody. It's the combination of having the opportunity to articulate one's ideas AND recasting them after reading others' that really turns me on. The point is not to bring someone to one's point of view but to test out one's own convictions against the experiences and beliefs of others. In the process one not only learns a lot from the discussion -- and of course from links -- but one often finds common ground.
tres, As somebody that have very little to agree with your viewpoints, I sincerely feel you provide value to the discussions on A2K. c.i.
truth
Wonderful to hear expressions of intellectual openness by C.I. and Tartarin. But I want to also note that my relativism and tolerance applies only to the EXPRESSION of IDEAS, of the right to express and expose others to one's convictions. But I am totally INTOLERANT about ACTIONS guided by destructive irrational emotions and politico-economic greed. I grant the racist and the rapacious capitalist the right to express ideas they feel justify their actions--the first amendment is a principle I accept unconditionally. But I detest and oppose, and would take action when possible against. racist actions, behaviors that would restrict the freedoms and opportunities of ethnic and gender minorities, and those greedily aimed to enrich oneself at the expense of the more helpless members of our society.
"i'm liberal to a degree
but if you think i'm gonna let
Barry Goldwater move in next door
or marry my daughter
you must be crazy"
dylan
Must have someone to express the wrong view so that the right view will have more weight!
Tress, please don't leave. Often, I just read because so many liberals are much better informed than I and they express themselves with an eloquence I could never achieve.
Because I'm a liberal doesn't mean that I only read liberal posts. I have learned just as much from conservative ideas, even to the point of influencing some of my opinions.
In addition, when I am reading the opinions of intelligent people, civilly discussing the issues, I read for the pure pleasure of being in the company of honest, passionate citizens of the world.
Fear not good people; if I do ever take my leave of A2K there are plenty of other hyper-opinionated right-wingers out there to fill the void. :wink:
And they are all delightful even though they are wrong most of the time.
And on that, Diane, let me just say that we will agree to disagree!
Any time, maxsdadeo. Arguing with you is a pleasure.
I've been reading this thread from time to time and I so wanted to chime in with an example of some part of my opposite that I agree with, but it reminds me so much of that inane question that political opponents are asked during local debates " Senator, could you tell us one thing you admire about your opponent?" (I always want them to answer "No". but they don't)
JLNobody: nice work in the recent pages.
I'm stealing some of your lines, look for them to be published soon.
Tres: This thread is a good exercise in trying to find middle ground. Thanks for starting it. I'm too thick a liberal to find anything I admire about conservatism or neo-conservatism other than to say most conservatives that I know truly believe they are in the right. It's nice to have a commitment to some ideals , even if I think they ought to be committed for holding them.
Joe
