Move to make circumcision illegal

It came back, did it Wilso?

I am wondering how widely felt such passion is?

It seems to me perfectly reasonable that such decisions are made, indeed, by the owner of the penis, when he is of such years as to make an informed decision.

However, I have never in actual life, nor in my work, come across a man - circumcised or not - who seems to give much of a fabulous flying **** about the state of his own penis in this regard - (while maintaining great interest in, and enthusiasm about, their penii in all other respects!) though certainly none of my friends have had their sons cut - (though most Aussie males of my generation are, themselves, circumcised).

Wait a minute here--Keviesmum, inferentially a woman, is an expert on male penile sensitivity? Damn good thing i read this--i know so little about my own body, i always look for anonymous women to tell me how blighted and empty my experiences are.

I made a post earlier in the thread and was abused for it. For many years in Oz, it was commonplace. Then it was moved away from. Then it came back about 15 years ago, and now there seems to be a move away from it again. And I'm sure each time the cycle changes there have been what appear to be very justifiable reasons for it.

Real life includes more than one's immediate circle of friends;

Very potent, bunny. I agree, and also don't give a crap that I was circumcised. Apparently, keviesmum (or dad) doesn't agree that an obsession with being circumcised is a psychological problem, not necessarily a physical one. Female circumcision is much more damaging physically than male circumcision. I expect I will get a request for "studies" to prove this, but I'm not going to bother. As to Craven's post, it is true that with hindsight, you will probably be hard-pressed to find anyone who would characterize the idea as "pleasant", but I just don't feel that the government has the right to outlaw a practice that for some, is a serious religious undertaking

It should be left up to the individual to choose, in the secular world. In the religious world, well, they should be allowed their right to circumsize their kids. In the Jewish faith, the ceremony (the Bris) is conducted by a Mohel, basically a circumcision expert. In fact, that's all they do, so it's akin to going to heart specialist if you have a heart problem. The baby gets lightly anaethesitized with some fine, yuckily sweet kosher wine, and basically passes out for the whole thing. As for doctors doing this, well, they are not specialists in this area.

Another thought....how different is circumcision from any other sort of body modification? This question of course rests on the idea of consent. Kay, off to mutilate more babies. Have fun. :wink:

Lol! You seem VERY concerned, Mum me dear.

Thank you for telling me that real life includes more than friends - and clients - I am quite aware of this fact - nonetheless, it is interesting to meet a small group of zealots when one has not before.

Thank you also for undelining the point I made - that there has been generational shift. I was, as I wrote, quite aware of it. In fact, I support it, for reasons that you may also have neglected to read. it is good to read what people say. you know - instead of merely assuming you know. But, I believe I bump my gums bootlessly.

Not that I think zealots necessarily wrong - it is just of interest.

Speaking of friends and such - you seem entirely to discount what many of the men here say - that they are offended by your assumptions thay they must necessarily feel somehow emasculated, or lesser.

pray, what is the reason for that?

keviesmum wrote:

Real life includes more than one's immediate circle of friends;

Keviesmum, dlowan is a psychologist/social worker (?). I'd be very careful about denigrating her real life experience. As for the statistics you quoted, in searching for statistics myself, I"ve found that there are ALWAYS two sets of stats. Those produced by either side of an issue. And they always seem to tell the story wanted by the side they were published by.

I might also say that I've never heard a man complain that he was circumcised. Not once. Nor do I ever think about it myself, except when discussions like this arise, which only serves to remind me that most of the time I don't think about it.

Please stop addressing and quoting me directly, keviesmum, I have already stated I am no longer interested in this discussion. Thank you for your understanding.

Hmmmm - where do I start?

You see, I basically agree with your position - based on ideas re right to informed consent, worries about culturally based surgery, knowledge of trauma's effects on the infant - however, your lack of respect and tolerance and reasonable approaches to folk - many of whom possess the dicks of which you speak, and are telling you how they feel - plus your seeming inability to entertain the possibility of any view other than yours having any merit - and your arrogance in believing that folk here need educating - are making me highly suspicious of you and your studies.

Rational and logical? Hmmmmmmm - I find that rational and logical folk are usually are far more able to comprehend and acknowledge other's points of view and are not so prone to denigrate their opponents.

Wilso wrote:

I made a post earlier in the thread and was abused for it. For many years in Oz, it was commonplace. Then it was moved away from. Then it came back about 15 years ago, and now there seems to be a move away from it again. And I'm sure each time the cycle changes there have been what appear to be very justifiable reasons for it.

The keyword here seems to be "appear". Appearances can be deceiving--especially when flawed and deceitful studies are used to present these "appearences".