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Michael Moore: Why Democrats shouldn't be scared

 
 
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 01:20 pm
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,378 • Replies: 24
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 01:34 pm
Quote:
As chaos ensued, "spontaneously, I grabbed the arm of then-police commissioner Bernard Kerik and said to Bernie, 'Thank God George Bush is our president.' And I say it again tonight, 'Thank God George Bush is our president.' "


Excuse me for a minute. I have to run out back and throw up.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 01:44 pm
Thank god Gustav ain't sitting on my couch.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 01:53 pm
BBB
I hope Gus didn't make the goat clean up after him---but then, they will eat anything.

BBB
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 02:36 pm
I guess Moore should have seen the polls showing Bush with an 11 point lead coming out of his convention, where as Kerry only had about 2 points coming out of his. If a majority is any indication as Moore says it is then Kerry is in trouble.

Why is it democraps have been breaking so many unspoken rules from the past. No former president has spoken out against a sitting president as Clinton has, and no candidate has given a speech after another's convention. If this is the way democraps want to work things then they should stop complaining about how the 527's do business. Speaking of Kerry and Vietnam, if he doesn't want any one to question his service then why did he make that a centerpiece of his speech the other night. He criticized Bush and Cheney for not going to Vietnam. When is he going to stop with the "I was in Vietnam, so that means I'm the ****" comments. If he wants people to drop Vietnam, then he has to do it as well.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 02:55 pm
Baldimo wrote:
democraps


Quote:
If he wants people to drop Vietnam, then he has to do it as well.


c'mon dude. "democraps" ?? the democratic party is the oldest remaining party in the country and is just as valid as the republican party. when people say this stuff, i tend to not take anything they say seriously. what that means to you is that you lose an opportunity to convince a "swing voter" like me to vote for your guy.

how can kerry drop vietnam?? if the swiftboat guys keep yapping, and bush won't denounce them by name (as kerry did with the moveon ad,btw)he has to respond in kind. after all, isn't the republican stance that the commander and chief needs to be a warrior?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 03:03 pm
democraps is a word used by boys who call their penis' their wee wee's Don't Tread....
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 03:09 pm
Sounds like Abuzz language.
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 03:14 pm
There isn't much room to talk there my friends. When I see what others have said on this site it is a little hard for you to take the high ground. Just admit that everyone does it and drop the saint bit.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Sep, 2004 03:23 pm
Give some examples.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 10:53 am
Michael Moore's Patriot Act
Michael Moore's Patriot Act
How a blue-collar screw-up became the White House's nightmare
By MARK BINELLI
(Excerpted from RS 957)
(Posted Aug 25, 2004)
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story?id=6438345&pageid=rs.News&pageregion=single2

Back in the mid-eighties, a filmmaker named Kevin Rafferty decided he wanted to include footage from a Ku Klux Klan rally in his documentary about white supremacists. A colleague suggested Rafferty give Michael Moore a call. The editor of a progressive weekly newspaper in his hometown of Flint, Michigan, Moore regularly embarrassed neo-Nazis and other right-wingers on his local radio show, so he was able to set up a lunch date with the grand wizard of the Klan and secure an invitation to a weekend rally. There would be Klan weddings, cross burnings, lectures. Even a barbecue! But when Rafferty's crew arrived from New York, they got cold feet. "They didn't want to be on camera, because they thought the Klan guys might come after them," Moore recalls today. "So I said, 'I'll do it. I'm not afraid to be on camera.' "

As they say in the business, the kid was a natural. Early in the film, Moore tells a tan, attractive blonde wearing an SS armband, jackboots and a stylish blue neck scarf, "You don't look like a typical Nazi."

Flattered, the woman giggles sweetly.

"You could be on a Coppertone commercial," Moore continues.

The woman beams. Then, though Moore has not asked, she says softly, "I'm not just against Jewish people. It's also blacks."

Working on Blood in the Face inspired Moore to make his own documentary. A year later, before he began Roger and Me, Moore called on Rafferty for a tutorial. Rafferty taught Moore how to use a camera and helped to shoot and edit the film. Moore subsequently discovered not only that Rafferty had friends in high places but that the phrase "friends in high places" was a gross understatement: Rafferty's uncle is George Herbert Walker Bush.

There's a scene in Fahrenheit 9/11 where George W. Bush, during an early campaign event, spots Moore in the crowd and shouts, "Why don't you go find real work?" "Right before that line, he was going, 'Heyyy, Mike,' " Moore says, accentuating his Dubya impression with a wink and a stagy finger-point. "Kevin's his cousin. They had a screening of Roger and Me at Camp David." Moore chuckles, then continues, deadpan, "I'm grateful to any family that helped me become a filmmaker. I can never forget that."

Unless you're the democratic candidate for president, you have probably formed an opinion about, and perhaps even seen, Fahrenheit 9/11. (John Kerry has repeatedly insisted that he has no plans to see Moore's film, though it would seem his speech writers have seen it: A line about the Saudi royal family in Kerry's acceptance speech at the Democratic convention drew huge applause, and, more recently, he's been referencing Bush's white-knuckled, seven-minute reading of "The Pet Goat" on the morning of September 11th.)

The movie's success -- it had grossed $115 million at press time, making it the most profitable documentary ever -- has made Moore a real-life summer action hero for the left. Who needs Bruce Willis running from a fireball when you can watch a fat guy in jeans and a Michigan State Spartans cap taking on an entire Republican administration? Meanwhile, on the right, Fahrenheit 9/11 has spawned a mini cottage industry of anti-Moore propaganda, including the best-selling book Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man, co-written by an attorney who represented the National Rifle Association. "I'm honored," Moore says. "To be the object of so much venom from all the wrong people, you get the sense that you might be doing something right."

Doing what's right, for Moore, at the moment, means one thing: unseating George W. Bush. With Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore is not simply promoting a movie. He's campaigning against a sitting president. Moore turned down an offer to do a one-man show on Broadway so he could focus on the election. He plans to send film crews to Florida in November in case there's a repeat of the 2000 voting debacle. And though Fahrenheit 9/11 is the odds-on favorite for a Best Documentary Oscar, Moore is seriously considering not submitting the film for nomination so he could instead broadcast it on PBS, cable or even a network on November 1st. (Academy rules regulate as to when a nominated film can be shown on television.) Critics would certainly call the above gesture a publicity stunt. Not that Moore would disagree. He has been publicizing the film nonstop since its release, hoping to sway as many potential voters as possible.

"What I need is sleep," Moore says. "I've had no time off since Stupid White Men came out in February 2002. But we're in a precarious time. If you were in the French Resistance, would you say, 'Sorry, I need a vacation in the South of France?' "

The previous quote is a prime example of Moore as rhetorical ninja. He did not come right out and say, "George W. Bush is a Nazi." He, in fact, delivered the "vacation" part of the quote in a jokey Pepe Le Pew accent. Such tactics infuriate Moore's enemies, along with some allies. Others simply allow themselves to be vicariously thrilled.

"People who criticize him for not being a traditional documentary filmmaker are missing the point," says New York Times cultural columnist Frank Rich. "He's not trying to be the New York Times. He's an entertainer and a provocateur."

At the moment, Moore is behind the wheel of his red Chrysler minivan, giving me a tour of Davison, the little town just outside Flint where he spent his childhood. He and his wife/producer, Kathleen Glynn, a fellow Flint native, moved back to the area two years ago when their daughter started college. They still have a Manhattan apartment but now return to New York largely for work. In Davison, we drive past rolling farmland, a quaint Main Street and Moore's favorite doughnut shop.

"If you spent a day with me here," Moore tells me later, after stopping to chat with a rather portly former neighbor, "you'd see I'm the thinnest ******* guy in town!" Moore looses another hoarse cackle. Though his critics like to paint a portrait of him as a ranting lunatic, and though Moore himself can be hectoring and sanctimonious in his films, in person he's jolly in the way only men of a certain girth can be jolly, his very size screaming bon vivant.

Oddly enough, Fahrenheit 9/11 may be Moore's least provocative film. The suggestion that corporations have as great a responsibility to their employees as to their shareholders, as Moore claims in Roger and Me and The Big One, or that American society is driven by a self- destructive cycle of fear and consumption, as he insists in Bowling for Columbine, is far more radical than the central thrust of Fahrenheit 9/11. Pointing out that our Middle East policy is steered by monied interests, that the Iraq war has been a disaster and that Bush is a moron is hardly shocking. What has resonated in the film are images that most Americans never got to see in the mainstream media, whether it's Bush reading "The Pet Goat" or slick Marine recruiters targeting underclass kids in Flint or violent footage driving home the cost of war on both sides of the conflict.

"What you hear most if you're standing in the lobby, listening to people, is, 'I don't remember seeing Bush sitting there for seven minutes,' " Moore says. "That's what's shocking to people. People are like, 'Shouldn't I be seeing this stuff on TV for free? Why is a guy in a baseball cap with a high school education telling me this?' "
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 11:16 am
The anger and vitriol that came out of the RNC towards Kerry has EVERYTHING to do with the desperation tactics of the Republican Party. They know this election is going to be extremely close, DESPITE the "bounce" after their convention. And since it's obvious they have nothing to run on, all they can do is demonize their opponent (Kerry) with their Swift Boat operatives. Isn't it amazing how those swifities threw together a book and an ad campaign in record time, especially RIGHT after Kerry won the primaries.

Boy, what a coincidence THAT turned out to be, huh?
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 11:19 am
Quote:
BumbleBeeBoogie: Aerodynamically, it's impossible for the BumbleBee to fly because of the shape and size of its body in relationship to it's wing span, but the BumbleBee doesn't know this and it flies anyway.


I didn't know that. I continue to learn something everyday. Smile
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Sep, 2004 11:34 am
Dookie
Don't believe a word of it; its just a motto.

BTW, in what part of San Francisco are you located. I move from the Bay Area to Albuquerque 2 years ago.

BBB Smile
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 09:42 am
The Richmond District, BumbleBeeBoogie. I just spent three out of my four days off this Labor Day weekend at the beach. Unbelievable weather we're having lately.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 10:27 am
Dookie
Dookie, I lived on Alameda's Bay Farm Island (Harbor Bay Isle) two draw bridges from the mainland until I retired and moved to New Mexico.

Why? I could buy five lovely Albuquerque homes for what a house costs in the Richmond District. I settled for one great home for me and my Bichon, Maddy.

BBB
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2004 10:36 am
All the power to ya, BumbleBeeBoogie. Home ownership is a pipe dream for us right now, unless we seriously consider leaving the Bay Area, which has been a distinct possibility, despite the fact that I've lived here all my life.

The times, they are a changin'...
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bruhahah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 01:04 pm
Quote:
The anger and vitriol that came out of the RNC


A rather ironic accusation in a thread about Michael Moore, wouldn't you say?

Seriously, do you truly think this campaign has been all about GOP "anger and vitriol" as over against respectful, reasonable debate on the DEM side??

Has the GOP has expressed some harsh criticisms of DEM positions and policies? Of course! That's what happens in any election campaign, from both sides (and it's healthy!). And, unfortunately, there are also some very nasty things said by fringe people (some a bit overzealous, some worse) on both sides.

But can you honestly find anything in the statements and claims of GOP leaders (especially Bush & Cheney) that compares with the repeated attacks of the past year on Bush's veracity and motives (lying, betraying us. . . ) -- by DEM party leaders (think esp. Kennedy, Gore, McCauliffe), including Kerry?

And even if it were the GOP, and the GOP alone, expressing "anger" (think back on Gore's springtime speeches, and tell me that one again!) is that the same as being knowingly dishonest or vicious?

The DEM assertion that the GOP convention was all about "anger" --mainly based on Zell Miller's speech-- is, with all due respect, a bit confused.
For one thing, "anger" and "vitriol" are not the same thing. Yes, Miller was angry --and he SAID so!-- but that does not mean his words were dishonest or "hateful". Miller was angry at what to him feels like a betrayal by the party he has belonged to all his life. Agree or disagree with him, but don't say his angry disappointment is de facto illegitimate.

My question -- why has most of the DEM response to the GOP convention (mostly focused on Millers' speech) consisted of angrily decrying GOP "anger"? Why not simply, calmly, respond with the facts as the Dems see them? If Miller's anger drove him to totally misrepresent Kerry's Senate record (the subject of his speech), should that be so very hard to correct? He used puported facts -- if he got them wrong, rebut them!

Let's be honest -- the "anger and vitriol" in this campaign didn't suddenly enter with the GOP convention or even the SwiftVets ads. It grows out of Bush-hatred (which itself is more about wanting power back, not about Bush himself).
0 Replies
 
padmasambava
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 02:12 pm
What else can you do?
"Why not simply, calmly, respond with the facts as the Dems see them?"

What else can you do?

Republicans seem not to be aware of their own vitriol. Nobody likes smear campaigns - when the smear is aimed at them.

What makes something a smear is its untruth.

Perhaps you're right that untruth in the Bush campaign did not begin with the Swift Boat claims. Laughing
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Sep, 2004 09:32 pm
The Bush hatred (a bit strong of a word) is not about wanting power back. It is about the man and all those who are with him or for him and the things they say or do or believe.
0 Replies
 
 

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