More bad news for Kerry

Harper wrote:

Bush Family Values: Teenage Son, Dad and Gramps all working for minimum wage at the same McDonalds.

You forgot to mention that none of the three finished high school and McDonald's was the only place that would hire them. But you are forgiven, after all, I know you are trying really hard to prove some kind of point.

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Sure, McD's is the only place that would hire them NOW.

But we used to have a lot more manufacturing jobs, jobs that sure weren't considered great jobs, but a step up from McD's.

Now, instead of 3 generations all working at the factory to make, say, steel, they can all work together to make hamburgers for half the pay. And that's with the same educational levels. And the admin still lists them as 'manufacturing jobs.'

THAT'S the point.

Cycloptichorn

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what about working at Wal_mart

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Yup, Gramps owns a chain of 15 McDonalds and has a networth of $15million+, Dad is a regional manager pulling down $175K/year and teenage son is getting money to go on dates and keep his expensive car that dad bought him in gas.

sounds like the american dream to me.

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To me, this is the difference in our thinking Cy. When I was out of work many years ago, I decided that I had two choices. I chose to take a job for half my previous salary in order to be a contributor rather than a taker of government largesse. It was not a fun job, but a pain. But I took it while I continued to look for something better. And guess what happened? My employer saw the type of work I did and within 4 months had given me a position making more than I had at my previous job.

The point of my story is just this. Nobody is tied to a low paying job. Just because a person is working at McD's today does not mean they cannot look and find a job paying them what they think they deserve. That is the American way.

It is still better in my opinion of course, to be working at McD's while continuing to try to better your position than it is to be unemployed and holding out your hand to the government to take care of you.

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I agree with what you said, CR.

I just think that if we are replacing higher-paid jobs with lower paid ones, it can't be said to be anything more than a limited success.

Salaries should be going UP these days, not the other way around....

Cycloptichorn

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I will agree with the limited success comment. I think we both would like to see better, but sometimes ya just gotta grab on to what is there and hope for improvement down the line.

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Agreed. I've had to take some pretty low-paying jobs in my time to make ends meet, but so what? My attitude was always that people should cowboy up and try their best before giving up.

This brings us back to the overall picture, though - is what we are doing really helping create quality jobs in America?

If quality jobs are what we want, how can we ensure that they are available?

Cycloptichorn

P.S. I've really come to enjoy our discourse here, C.R.... I agree with ya more than anyone else on this board who holds opposite political opinions as I do, and your arguments are always well thought out.

Cycloptichorn

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Thanks for the compliment Cy. I really try to be reasonable. And though I may come to different conclusions than others using the same data, I am not so egotistical to believe my view is the only right view.

I just keep remembering two things. We all want what is best for this country (and mankind in general) and that according to my late grand-dad, there are always two sides to an argument, and there is usually some truth to each side.

And out of fairness, I must say it is always great to discuss something with someone without the seemingly required name-calling and snide comments, so thank you for restoring my faith in democrats. Smile

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I agree there is a slowly growing economy and it would be great if one could be more optimistic that it will grow at a faster pace -- that is, fast enough not to fuel inflation. Health care costs and energy costs inflating through the roof does not help in a slow growing economy. Durable goods are, at least, stable. A fairly good measure of expendable income is in my field -- fine art and specialized custom lighting. Of course, I would like to see the economy do better because I make more sales and make more money. Since I hang around the film forum more often than here, I'd like to say that the movie box office is a good measure of the economy for the middle income citizens which is the majority of the population. One could say that the summer fare was below average and that accounts for dissapointing ticket sales. Or that the theaters raised ticket prices and lost out because of falling attendance. Whatever it is, people aren't going to the movies. It's too complex for the average politician to comprehend and unfortunately that's all we've got in Washington -- average politicians who couldn't make a good living as lawyers.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Since I hang around the film forum more often than here, I'd like to say that the movie box office is a good measure of the economy for the middle income citizens which is the majority of the population. One could say that the summer fare was below average and that accounts for dissapointing ticket sales. Or that the theaters raised ticket prices and lost out because of falling attendance. Whatever it is, people aren't going to the movies.

It could be the lack of movies released that were worth seeing (which could also be matched by the lack of politicains we have that are worth paying attention to!).

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sozobe wrote:

Not to mention that it's not such great news -- slower than predicted. It's OK, not great.

Markets were down today confirming the fact that this was not good news. About 150,000 people dropped out of the job market, so in reality no jobs were gained. Roughly one million jobs havestill been LOST under Bush.

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CoastalRat wrote:

To me, this is the difference in our thinking Cy. When I was out of work many years ago, I decided that I had two choices. I chose to take a job for half my previous salary in order to be a contributor rather than a taker of government largesse. It was not a fun job, but a pain. But I took it while I continued to look for something better. And guess what happened? My employer saw the type of work I did and within 4 months had given me a position making more than I had at my previous job.

The point of my story is just this. Nobody is tied to a low paying job. Just because a person is working at McD's today does not mean they cannot look and find a job paying them what they think they deserve. That is the American way.

It is still better in my opinion of course, to be working at McD's while continuing to try to better your position than it is to be unemployed and holding out your hand to the government to take care of you.

How can anyone keep a roof over their head and eat on $200 a week?

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High school students, retirees supplementing their retirement, college students.

Why is it that everyone thinks that people working at McDonalds make minimum wage? Managers make decent money and if you stick with it (McD's promotes from within) you can make some serious cabbage.

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McGentrix wrote:

High school students, retirees supplementing their retirement, college students.

Why is it that everyone thinks that people working at McDonalds make minimum wage?

Because it is a fact! Ah duh!!!!!

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Oh, there you go again showing off that level, even-keeled nature of yours. So credible...

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I would guess, McG, that she believes that it is self-evident that the vast majority of McD's workers are making around minimum wage. You can make serious cabbage, but a lot of those who work at McDonald's don't want to do it their whole lives; they are forced to do it because there aren't a ton of other jobs available, and McD's turnover gives them the opportunity to make at least SOME money.

Cycloptichorn

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You're talking about 10% of the work force that makes it into middle management and they still make less than $20,000 a year. Serious cabbage indeed.

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(One of my oldest clients owns eight McDonalds in Utah).

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