Is my Marriage over or is their Hope??

whew. let me think on this one for a while. And welcome!

I can't answer your question, but I can say that you need to not engage in any more of these spats. When you say something like "I never loved you since our second child" you might win the argument, but you don't want to win like that. I'm sure those words are burned into her mind and will take a LOT to erase the kinds of doubts that these statements bring about...it's a lot easier to convince someone that you don't love them then that you do love them. Next time you find yourself in one of these spats, just get out of their for your sake, her sake, and your children's sake.

I agree with Stuh about the arguing, you both need to find a better way of dealing with conflict. I am afraid you are going to have a hard time getting back your wife's trust after this last incident, you've obviously hurt her very deeply, not only as a betrayal of affection but also as an injury to her pride. That's important to know. If you know she she loves you yet she is being cold towards you, despite your sincere apology, then she is evaluating the worth of allowing herself to be so emotionally vulnerable, of giving you so much power over her happiness.

When it comes down to it she probably wants to forgive you, none of us like to stay angry at the people we love, but opening your heart to someone who's affection you doubt is a truly fearsome thing, especially if you consider yourself above being "tricked" in that respect.

Yet hope springs eternal. Be persistent, and consistent, in your love, and for heaven's sake learn how to argue properly! No shouting, no name calling, just a good, honest battle of wills. You'll find such a contest can actually be enjoyable!

And you throw in that she might be depressed since the birth of your youngest -- that could well be. If so, that really should be dealt with, unfortunately you forfeited your right to be the one to encourage her to see a doctor about it when you said such stupid hurtful things.

My advice would be for you to be steadfast, loving, put yourself out there even if you get tromped on -- this isn't a category for "what if's." Do your utmost, and if it doesn't work, that would suck but you know you've tried. Your marriage hangs in the balance, do everything you can to tip it in your favor. Some specific suggestions:

- Say that if she would prefer not to live with you right now, she and the kids can have the house, you'll find someplace else (*temporarily*)

- Give her physical space if she wants it but don't withdraw emotionally -- send her emails, send her cards, send her flowers, call her.

- Take the kids out for a fun day, give her some time alone -- that would also be good for the kids, who must be freaked.

- Promise to go to counselling if that is what she wants.

- Generally emphasize that you did a stupid thing that you didn't mean and that you completely regret, and that you won't do again since you have so thoroughly learned your lesson.

- Be patient. If you start this, get no immediate results, and then throw your hands up in frustration, it's that much more unlikely that she'll come around.

Good luck.

.... and please, send her long, hand-written letters that explains just what a mistake you made... how you really did love her... have always loved her and wished from the moment you said those awful words about not loving her, that you could take them back.

Be sure to say that you made a huge mistake... that you'll do whatever is in your power to make it easier if you two can get back together and you love the family that you and she made.

Any relationship can be salvaged if you love each other and want to make it work. You may have to be humble, you may have to voice some feelings that you don't usually do, but I have confidence if you are sincere and contrite, she will come around.

Begging is not too far for you to go at this point...you really did screw up, you know... and remember, when you argue and fight -- it is best not to go overboard.

Quick thought. You said something about her still being depressed. Post-partum depression can last for years after the child is born if the depression isn't dealt with.

On your own w/ the rest my friend, I have little experience in this arena...