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People of Compassion

 
 
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 04:06 am
In order to secure the swing moderate vote, the Republican National Convention is attempting to repackage the party as "People of Compassion."

Bush did not win the popular vote in 2000. The Supreme Court put him in office after the Florida fiasco. He tried to portray himself as a moderate, but as the CNN article points out:

"But since the controversial Florida recount put him in office, critics charge Bush has been anything but open, inclusive or compassionate. They say he's taken a rigidly conservative line on a variety of issues, including taxes, affirmative action, Iraq and the Patriot Act."

Has the Bush Administration demonstrated compassion over the last four years? Has the Bush Administration succeeded in winning the confidence of the swing-voting moderates necessary to win the 2004 election?

IMHO, the Bush Administration has done far more to demonstrate intolerance rather than compassion. What do you think?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,104 • Replies: 55
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 04:30 am
Hmmm - that is what our Prime Minister did, too.

Didn't work out to be true...
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edgarblythe
 
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Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 04:42 am
I have detected no compassion in Bush whatever.
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Debra Law
 
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Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 05:12 am
Copy Cat
The current President Bush is following in his pappy's footsteps . . . a copy cat, so to speak.

People of Compassion? Bush appears to be copying his father's campaign/convention rhetoric of a "kinder and gentler nation."

In 1988, the senior Bush said: "I want a kinder and gentler nation, like a thousand points of light in a broad and peaceful sky."

But, what eventually happened to the senior Bush?

See the Government webpage:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gb41.html

Quote:
Bush's greatest test came when Iraqi President Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, then threatened to move into Saudi Arabia. Vowing to free Kuwait, Bush rallied the United Nations, the U. S. people, and Congress and sent 425,000 American troops. They were joined by 118,000 troops from allied nations. After weeks of air and missile bombardment, the 100-hour land battle dubbed Desert Storm routed Iraq's million-man army.

Despite unprecedented popularity from this military and diplomatic triumph, Bush was unable to withstand discontent at home from a faltering economy, rising violence in inner cities, and continued high deficit spending. In 1992 he lost his bid for reelection to Democrat William Clinton.


The junior Bush has yet to demonstrate military and diplomatic triumph. Our soldiers are still dying in Iraq--and we must spend $87 BILLION dollars to continue the occupation and rebuild the country--with the bill expected to increase. While more than a million people in this country have joined the poverty ranks, Bush Administration supporters are getting richer and fatter from government contracts.

If the protests and demonstrations occurring right now in NYC during the Republican National Convention represent discontent, then there appears to be plenty of discontent at home.

Kinder & Gentler? People of Compassion?

I don't think repackaging the party's image will suddenly cause the discontent to melt away.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 05:26 am
Compassion is defined as consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.

I think both parties are compassionate in that regard.

What we disagree on is the best way to alleviate the distress we see.

The constitution's preamble states that government's role is to "promote the general welfare". not provide it.

Republicans believe government's role should be limited to the constitutional defined role of promoting policies that help everyone provide for themselves.

By promoting the private sector to provide these services, the recipients of such service or charity are put in proper contact with the representatives of those who are paying for the charity or providing the service. Under such a system of welfare (welfare in the broad sense of what is good for all), politicians are positioned in their proper role of promoting the general welfare and are removed from their propensity to provide the public largess to special interests in return for a long and prosperous political career.
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PKB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:03 am
People of compassion!!!!!

Where? (looking around)

(play on Bush joke. Looks under desk.)

No. No people of compassion here.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:38 am
Quote:
The constitution's preamble states that government's role is to "promote the general welfare". not provide it.


That says it all.

The problem is, that conservatives traditionally believe in small government, with the the government staying out of people's provate business.

How does that relate to Bush's stand on gay rights, stem cells, and reproductive choice? A person who believed in smaller government would not even become involved in those issues; IMO, they should not even be addressed by the government.

Problem is, we have two factions attempting to infantilize the American people. The left, with it's economic and social policies; the right with it's social policies.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:44 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
The constitution's preamble states that government's role is to "promote the general welfare". not provide it.


That says it all.

The problem is, that conservatives traditionally believe in small government, with the the government staying out of people's provate business.

How does that relate to Bush's stand on gay rights, stem cells, and reproductive choice? A person who believed in smaller government would not even become involved in those issues; IMO, they should not even be addressed by the government.

Problem is, we have two factions attempting to infantilize the American people. The left, with it's economic and social policies; the right with it's social policies.


The issues mentioned above (the GOP agenda re: government interference in the private sector and individual choice) is the reason I am an Independent conservative and not a GOPer.

But, on balance, the GOP is much closer to my political philosophy than the current Dem party which is dominiated by the extreme Left.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:45 am
Larry434 wrote:
Compassion is defined as consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.

I think both parties are compassionate in that regard.

What we disagree on is the best way to alleviate the distress we see.

The constitution's preamble states that government's role is to "promote the general welfare". not provide it.

Republicans believe government's role should be limited to the constitutional defined role of promoting policies that help everyone provide for themselves.

By promoting the private sector to provide these services, the recipients of such service or charity are put in proper contact with the representatives of those who are paying for the charity or providing the service. Under such a system of welfare (welfare in the broad sense of what is good for all), politicians are positioned in their proper role of promoting the general welfare and are removed from their propensity to provide the public largess to special interests in return for a long and prosperous political career.


So it all comes down to the welfare program? You and I might agree on what the proper role of the federal government is. However, it appears to me that the strategy of the Republicans is to spend it into bankruptcy thereby forcing complete obliteration of social programs. That, to me is irresponsible as it pretty much ensures very high taxes on my children to pay the debt.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:49 am
The debt hasn't been paid down in all but a couple of years of the history of our Republic. Given that, what leads you to speculate that your children will do so?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:51 am
So you think that we can continue to spend spend spend with no consequences to the future generations? If we don't pay it down the interest payments will become so steep that an increase in government revenue will be the only way to keep up with the payments.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 06:58 am
FreeDuck wrote:
So you think that we can continue to spend spend spend with no consequences to the future generations? If we don't pay it down the interest payments will become so steep that an increase in government revenue will be the only way to keep up with the payments.


You could have said the same in 1900.

Remember, those interest payments go to the Treasury or primarily U.S. citizens who purchase Treasury securities.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 07:00 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/01/politics/campaign/01campaign.html?th
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 07:16 am
I believe that this administration has shown compassion time and time again. To the wealthy and to industry. After all those are who and what are important. Let the poor and helpless fend for themselves. Didn't someone point out that the preamble of the US constitution states "promote the general welfare," not provide it.
I would ask if all else fails and the private sector cannot respond to the "promotion" whatever that means, as for instance when 41 million people are without health insurance. Should the government with a shrug of the shoulders walk away and say we tried to "Promote". I believe when all else fails the government has an obligation to if need be, to in some manner provide. That is compassion.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 07:36 am
"Should the government with a shrug of the shoulders walk away and say we tried to "Promote". "

No au, the government should stay the course in promoting the general welfare.

Bush is good at staying that course.

Kerry wants to give up on it and install a Nanny government to provide same.

That is the difference we will be voting on Nov 2.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 08:07 am
Larry wrote
Quote:

No au, the government should stay the course in promoting the general welfare.



What exactly is the course additional tax cuts for the wealthy and industry. That has become the Bush theme. Stay the course, how by continuing to ignore the needs of American's?

During the 2000 election the theme was I am a uniter . We all know how that lie was exposed. In my long lifetime I have never seen the nation more divided. Lincoln said . "a house divided against itself cannot stand." My way or the highway is not the way of good government.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 08:13 am
Re: People of Compassion
Debra_Law wrote:
Bush did not win the popular vote in 2000. The Supreme Court put him in office after the Florida fiasco.

Assuming, momentarily, that you are correct about the popular vote, what does that have to do with the outcome of the election? The winner is determined by the electoral vote. Do you disagree with the Supreme Court ruling, and, if so, which part of their reasoning do you disagree with?
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 08:15 am
au1929 wrote:
Larry wrote
Quote:

No au, the government should stay the course in promoting the general welfare.



What exactly is the course additional tax cuts for the wealthy and industry. That has become the Bush theme. Stay the course, how by continuing to ignore the needs of American's?

During the 2000 election the theme was I am a uniter . We all know how that lie was exposed. In my long lifetime I have never seen the nation more divided. Lincoln said not an exact quote. A nation divided cannot stand.


Additional tax cuts, if deemed in our national interest by our elected representatives, will be o.k. by me. Or, tax increases. The Constitution gives them that duty and I am satisfied to let them represent me in that regard.

And Bush united a divided Congress to give him most of what he proposed:

2 Tax Cuts
Education Reform
Prescription Drug Support for Seniors
Authority to Invade and Occupy Iraq If He Deemed It Necessary

And of course he united the 50 states sufficiently to select him as their President as prescribed by our Constitution.

And a nation divided politically has served us quite well throughout our history. I am a proponent of the adversarial political and judicial systems.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 08:25 am
Larry434 wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
So you think that we can continue to spend spend spend with no consequences to the future generations? If we don't pay it down the interest payments will become so steep that an increase in government revenue will be the only way to keep up with the payments.

You could have said the same in 1900.

Remember, those interest payments go to the Treasury or primarily U.S. citizens who purchase Treasury securities.


http://zfacts.com/p/461.html

Quote:
The gross national debt is over $7 trillion and will rise by $700 billion this year alone. The national debt is comprised of money borrowed from and owed to: (1) various government trust funds, including Social Security, and (2) the public, including individuals, corporations, state, local and foreign governments, and the Federal Reserve, typically in the form of bonds or other types of securities.


Still looking for sources on who holds what percentage of our debt.

http://www.ahherald.com/atlarge/2004/040122_spending.html

Quote:
The National Debt represents a numerical history of the United States, showing when wars and other crises occurred, and underscoring the ascendancy of one political party or another. In 1900, the Debt was $2.1 billion - a small amount, even if adjusted to constant 2003-dollars (i.e., perhaps $40 billion). It meant that in the first 110 years of our history, the government accumulated a debt of only $21 per citizen - about $400 in constant 2003-dollars. (This included the Civil War.) Today, the Debt is $22,244 per citizen.


So, no, I don't think you could say the same about 1900.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 08:27 am
Duck:

You can find who holds the national debt here.

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opd.htm
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