Russia,Chechnya and other issues in the area

What I've heard, contrary to the official Russian statement, is that civilians say the Russian army has made some grave mistakes ...

That happens, especially in Russia. But all our sources based someway to the Russian agencies etc. , we have not really a other choice...

Just wait for a few more days, weeks, maybe months I guess ...

I agree.

There were no mistakes made by Russian army. They didn't await the terrorists will explose the bombs so they weren't ready at the moment. And remember that many of sitizens and the relatives were armed and started to shoot at the moment of storm trying to help. One of the officials said later that it really prevents for the special forces to do their work. The situation was really awful.

Love the way all of you have avoided identifying the children murderer's as Islam-facist Terrorists continuing their work of World Terrorism. No fifth column here.

Don't know f*ck-all about the history of the Caucasus, do ya Chuck?

The analyse from two reowned magazines:

Hostage Bloodbath Highlights Putin's Chechen Failure



complete analyse

analyse here

Set: A reported 10 of the dead Terrorists were carrying mid-eastern passports.These were part of the crowd that murdered innocent children Set! You need a History book for what exactly?

So passports change history?

A short -and readable- 'timeline' here at BBC

Chechen Check List

AK47's check!
Plastic explosives check!
Arabic passports check!

well Walter, don't you know it's quite obvius that when you have mid-eastern passport you are Islamic Fascist.

As well as it's obvius that instead of being terrified by incident itself and murdering of hundreds of children, we should discuss Islam Fascism in this topic, and maybe help one Christian Fanatic/Lunatic (let me remind you: GOD SPEAKS TO HIM) to stay in power for four more years.

And after all, it's obvius that it's much much worse to capture kids inside school and then later shoot them, then to bomb them and kill dozens of them from air when they are on wedding ceremony.

(on serious side - this can hardly bring peace to parents of dead children, but those children-killers in Russia are /will be/ punished at least, unlike some other children-killers without mid-eastern passports)

Very well done, MOU . . .

Thanks, MOU, for reminding me.

Yes MOU! Congratulations! Lets not confuse anyone with facts to wit:
"Interfax reports that 10 of the 20 hostage-murderers are from Arab states . Reuters reports that Basayev and Abu Omar al-Saif, al-Qaeda's top financier in Chechnya, bankrolled this operation."
Attacks like this are in store for us in America unless we track terrorists down where they live and kill them first.
What a thrill it is to associate with individuals who have one iota of kinship with those who do such terrible work.

in the meantime the death toll rises to around 322.

NYT reports:

"Hundreds Die as Siege at a Russian School Ends in Chaos
By C. J. CHIVERS and STEVEN LEE MYERS



ESLAN, Russia, Saturday, Sept. 4 - The siege of a school here in southern Russia ended Friday in panic, violence and death 52 hours after it began. At least 250 people - most of them students, teachers and parents - died, according to official reports and witnesses, after two large explosions set off pitched battles between heavily armed captors and Russian forces that continued for hours.

[The ITAR-Tass news agency on Saturday quoted Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky as saying 322 bodies, including those of 155 children, had been recovered from the school, according to the Associated Press.]

Ambulances, police cars and any other free vehicle rushed as many as 700 people to hospitals in frenzied convoys that careered through the streets of this small, leafy city in the republic of North Ossetia.

Early Saturday, 531 people remained hospitalized, including 283 children - 92 of whom were said to be in "very grave" condition, The Associated Press reported.

Scores of hostages survived, staggering from the school even as intense gunfire sputtered and grenades exploded around them. Many were barely dressed, their faces strained with fear and exhaustion, their bodies bloodied by shrapnel and gunshots. Many others never got out. Their bodies lay in the charred wreckage of Middle School No. 1's gymnasium, the roof of which had collapsed and burned, a police officer said. Many people here feared the toll would rise.

Gunfire and explosions erupted sporadically in and around the school deep into the night, as pockets of guerrillas continued to fight, including three hunkered inside a nearby building, reportedly holding an unknown number of hostages. Officials did not declare the crisis over until 11:30 p.m., more than 10 hours after the violence began........"

Full story here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/04/international/europe/04russia.html?th

This is gross slander, of the scumbag variety. You demonstrate once again why the witless are so easily manipulated by simple-minded propaganda. The Ingush and the Chechens will make bargains with the Devil himself to prosecute their war against the Russians. AQ will make deals with anyone to broaden, or even appear to broaden their base. The Chechens are not coming for us, although it would not distrub me to think that they made individual targets of frothing-at-the-mouth racist crusaders.

Now, I do not deny the fact that ten of these terrorists had Arab passwords. However, what I haven't seen mentioned here is the fact that hostages have said a number of hostage takers spoke Ingush. So what, you might think?

Well, Northern Ossetia is home to the Ossetians, a Russian-Orthodox nation who speak a language similar to Iranian. The Ingush are a Muslim nation, who reside in Ingushetia, a region next to Ossetia. These two nations are - to say it in an easy way - not that fond of each other, going back to WW II.

After the Soviet Union collapsed, a new conflict saw light in this region, evolving into a Ossetian-Ingush conflict in the 90's (Prigorodnyi Region, 1994), in which hundreds of people were killed.

I do not deny that it is likely that Chechen rebels were the largest fragment of the group, that they have orientated this attack, and that fundamental Wahhabists had a word in this. However, I do doubt whether this barbaric masskilling is solely based on religious grounds. I agree with Setanta that the Chechens are not coming for us. As I have said before, a small - though growing - part of Chechens is influenced by the puritanical way of Islam - Wahhabism - brought by fundamentalist Muslims. However, although Chechens are Muslim, does this not mean that the majority of Chechens support these views, and that they are fighting a religious war. In the eyes of the majority, this is still a war of independence.

NOTE: both Chechnya and Ingushetia have NO tradition of MILITANT ISLAM.