What Is Donald Trump Really Selling?

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

The one that stands out is Jefferson.
I actually thought/think that Obama may be one.

It's hard to know for real though since not a single politician can ever openly state that belief.

Yeah, I've heard that said about Jefferson, and seen pretty good arguments about him both yes and no.

But in order for me to see Obama as an atheist, I'd also have to believe he is someone who would take on being a boldfaced, marathon liar as part of his central psyche (he's outright professed Christian belief dozens of times) - and I actually see him as more principled than that.

1 Reply

@snood,

snood wrote:

maporsche wrote:

The one that stands out is Jefferson.
I actually thought/think that Obama may be one.

It's hard to know for real though since not a single politician can ever openly state that belief.

Yeah, I've heard that said about Jefferson, and seen pretty good arguments about him both yes and no.

But in order for me to see Obama as an atheist, I'd also have to believe he is someone who would take on being a boldfaced, marathon liar as part of his central psyche (he's outright professed Christian belief dozens of times) - and I actually see him as more principled than that.

I wouldn't even consider it a character flaw if he had to lie about his Christian belief. It's completely possible that he's even lying to himself about it.

It's one of those....I know what he says, but if he's lying about it....I'd understand (there's a Chris Rock joke about something like that I think..)

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Getting back to the POS, Clinton tore into Donald Trump on tv today. It makes you wonder why Trump has so many supporters when he's a cowboy who would shoot from the hip without any knowledge of foreign policy and our allies.
CONCLUSION? I hate to say it, but too many Americans are influenced by his wealth, and nothing more. Uneducated dummkophs

I know some educated smart people who still plan on voting for Trump. I guess, they are thinking of the court picks and figure Trump would surround himself with people who do know about foreign matters and the like. Worked out really good when people did the same with George W. Bush. I can't imagine what kind of Cheney like clone we will get with Trump.

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N.Y. attorney general on Trump University: 'This is straight up fraud'
Source: CNN

(CNN)New York's attorney general, who is leading a lawsuit against Trump University there, made his view of the case clear on Thursday: "It's fraud. This is straight up fraud."

Eric Schneiderman laced into presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump over the suit during an appearance on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," repeatedly describing the businessman as dishonest and manipulative in his role with the now-defunct program.
"The law is very clear. The law protects the gullible as well as the sophisticated. As we've seen over the course of the last year, there are a lot of people who fall for Mr. Trump's promises and rhetoric," Schneiderman said.

Trump is currently facing three separate lawsuits -- two class action suits filed in California and one in New York by Schneiderman -- which argue the program that took in an estimated $40 million, but was mired in fraud and deception.
Schneiderman's case argues that Trump and Michael Sexton, the former president of the program, engaged in fraudulent, illegal and deceptive conduct, and that although the program promised to offer courses taught by experts personally selected by Trump, the teachers were neither handpicked nor experts.

Schneiderman has repeatedly lambasted Trump and his "university," telling CNN's Carol Costello Tuesday on "Newsroom" that Trump "defrauded people out of money. They're entitled to their day in court."

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/02/politics/eric-schneiderman-attorney-general-trump-university-fraud/index.html

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

Trump has enough money to buy the best lawyers to keep him out of jail.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
Getting back to the POS, Clinton tore into Donald Trump on tv today. It makes you wonder why Trump has so many supporters when he's a cowboy who would shoot from the hip without any knowledge of foreign policy and our allies.
CONCLUSION? I hate to say it, but too many Americans are influenced by his wealth, and nothing more. Uneducated dummkophs

I know some educated smart people who still plan on voting for Trump. I guess, they are thinking of the court picks and figure Trump would surround himself with people who do know about foreign matters and the like. Worked out really good when people did the same with George W. Bush. I can't imagine what kind of Cheney like clone we will get with Trump.

Just look at some of the gems he's got working for him already

Katrina Pierson - campaign spokesperson who has said about Trumps ban on Syrian refugees "So what? Their Muslim!" When asked why she wore a bullet necklace said "I'll wear a fetus necklace next time" That she regrets "not at all" calling Obama a "half-breed".

Paul Manafort - convention manager who made his fortune working for some of the most despicable dictators of the 20th century (Ferdinand Marcos and ousted Ukranian president Yanukovych to name two)

Corey Lewandowski - Brash (read that as loud-mouthed and arrogant) campaign manager who just avoided being charged with assault for manhandling a reporter he thought was too close to Trump.

This is a small sampling of what Trump considers quality people.

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@snood,

Katrina Pierson seems like a robot to me. A nasty, crazy pants robot who steps on kittens when she gets the chance.

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@snood,

Too bad this kind of information is not widely known.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Too bad this kind of information is not widely known.

I didn't have to search very hard. And, why would this kind of information matter to Trump supporters, anyway? Hell their candidate himself could run over a puppy in primetime and none of them would blink.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Re: bobsal u1553115 (Post 6197401)
Trump has enough money to buy the best lawyers to keep him out of jail.

Bernie Madoff had more money and lawyers. Enron had more money and lawyers. Trump is a first rate fraud. Even Sen Ertle "the turtle" McConnell says Trump ought to release his taxes ASAP.

I think this is how Trump bows out and the GOP makes a hail mary pass - maybe like Ryan at the convention..

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
Re: bobsal u1553115 (Post 6197401)
Trump has enough money to buy the best lawyers to keep him out of jail.

Bernie Madoff had more money and lawyers. Enron had more money and lawyers. Trump is a first rate fraud. Even Sen Ertle "the turtle" McConnell says Trump ought to release his taxes ASAP.

I think this is how Trump bows out and the GOP makes a hail mary pass - maybe like Ryan at the convention..

You thinking Trump is trying to find an exit - that he really doesn't want this government job? I still kind of think that, too.

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@snood,

He never for a second thought he'd get this far. He doesn't have a clue and he knows it. He's not getting past Cleveland.

(Course I've been wrong before about The Donald.)

Hillary going after him was brilliant after Bernie got got caught flat footed over the "debate". Brilliant.

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@bobsal u1553115,

Yeah, it's good to remember how wrong a whole LOT of us have been about the The Great Orange Bluster. I just don't want anyone to get so cocky they think they can afford to stay home on Nov 8th. I want to never again underestimate the stupidity of the American voter.

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@snood,

One consolation -- in the Republican primary, the pundits were wrong but polls weren't. The pundits were largely explaining away polls that indicated that Trump would win.

The general election polls, meanwhile, don't look very good for him. It's a long way out and they don't mean much yet but it's still the opposite of what was going on in the primary. (He had a bit of a bump once he was officially the nominee -- well, last candidate standing -- but that's already fading and Hillary has yet to get her corresponding bump.)

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@RABEL222,

I guess I just have a hard time aligning your opinion of what Bernie's saying with what I'm actually hearing him saying.

I mean, his whole shtick is that a political revolution is needed. I.e. systemic change, requiring sustained grassroots action and an overhaul of institutional structures, both of which he talks about a lot. Yet you claim that he's saying we just need to elect him president and he'll make it all happen. That argument you ascribe to him seems to so fundamentally contradict what seems to me to be the central tenet of his rhetoric that I'm having trouble seeing where you're taking that perception from.

And for the record, I'm not some hardcore Bernie supporter or anything. Most I can say is that my heart is with Bernie but my head with Hillary. Generally speaking my main response to primary pie fights between Hillary and Bernie supporters is to be annoyed at the hyperbole of both sides, and defend Hillary to Bernie supporters and Bernie to Hillary supporters.

1 Reply

@nimh,

It must be maddening to be stuck there.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Yeah, I know to a lot of people who are predisposed to hear it, what he said was as good as saying "I don't believe in God". Others, geared differently, I'm sure heard "Of course I believe in God".
I just think it would be nice if the question could be asked and answered clearly, but I guess in the world of politics, that's asking for too much.

I think that's about right.

Personally, what I took from that video snippet was that he's probably secular if not atheist, but does genuinely identify with some of the social parts of the gospel. And that he uses that common ground to avoid the electoral death that probably still comes with openly declaring yourself godless in US politics. So a mix of pragmatically dodging the question and using a genuine sentiment to do so.

It's probably the same with his admiration of the Pope. That admiration is by itself sincere, I think. He probably associates Pope Francis with the days of Latin America's liberation theology, which spurred such hope for common ground between the left and the Church back when he came of political age and was passionate about events in Chile etc. Not that Pope Francis actually fits into liberation theology, but he brings the same kind of promise of bridging religious gospel with the left's beliefs. So I think Sanders does genuinely admire the Pope, but that the admiration is intertwined and rooted into primarily political/strategical hopes.

It's also possible, I suppose, that he genuinely ascribes to this kind of intangible, inchoate, holistic "we're all connected/there is some kind of higher force, if not actually a God" spirituality that's so popular now. In Dutch the (somewhat derogatory) word for that is "somethingism". Which would put him in line with massive numbers of people these days in the West ... but I dunno. It would seem out of character somehow. I think it's rather that he feels he has little choice but to dodge the direct question, but that the convictions he talks about to do so - and his desire to find common ground between christianity and socialism - are sincere, and not just y'r garden variety pandering for votes. But that's all definitely just interpretation, I don't really know.

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Trump donated to attorneys general who dropped Trump U. inquiries: report

Source: The Hill With Direct Link to AP Report

Attorneys general in Florida and Texas who declined to pursue lawsuits against the now-defunct Trump University received political contributions from Donald Trump, according to an Associated Press report.

Trump donated $35,000 to the successful gubernatorial campaign of then-Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott after a probe into the university’s "possibly deceptive trade practices" was dropped by his office.

And a political fundraising committee supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi received a $25,000 donation from the Donald J. Trump foundation just days after her office had announced that it was looking into joining a multi-state lawsuit against Trump University. Her office later dropped the inquiry, citing a lack of evidence.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282064-report-attorneys-general-who-declined-to-prosecute-trump

The full AP Report is worth a read.

Amazing that a sitting district attorney would except $25,000 from Trump WHILE deciding wether or not to prosecute him...
6

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Trump Demanded IRS Docs From Vets Groups While Refusing To Release His Tax Returns

By Jason Easley on Tue, May 31st, 2016 at 11:46 am

At a press conference, Donald Trump said that the vets groups didn't get the money that he promised because he had to vet the groups, but he refuses the American people vet him by releasing his tax returns.

At a press conference, Donald Trump said that the vets groups didn’t get the money that he promised because he had to vet the groups, but he refuses the American people vet him by releasing his tax returns.

Trump said:

I sent people checks of a lot of money, and we’re going to give you the names right now, which is what you want, and instead of being like thank you very much, Mr. Trump or Trump, did a good job. Everyone’s saying who got it, who got it, and you make me look vert bad I have never received such bad publicity for doing such a good job, so I will give you the names if that’s what you want. Right? Are you ready? I brought them here. It takes because you have to vet each company. You know, much of this money was paid out very early, but you have to vet all of these different groups because these are many different groups. You have to go through a process. When you send checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars to people, companies, and to groups and to charitable organizations that you’ve never heard of, you have to vet it.

Trump believes in vetting when it comes to charitable donations and vets. In fact, Trump wouldn’t turn over the money until the groups provided IRS documentation:

Donald Trump won’t allow himself to be vetted by voters with the same standard that he applied to charitable veterans groups. Trump thinks that he is above vetting, and a candidate who thinks that he is above being vetted by the voters will act like a president who is above the law if he occupies the White House.

Donald Trump, donald trump vets fundraiser controversy, trump, Trump press conference, Trump veterans groups donations, Trump vets veterans groups

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What Is Donald Trump Really Selling?

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