0
   

The Oppression of Free Speech

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 04:47 pm
it seems like the skies over New York are darker when the republicans have their convention there.
0 Replies
 
1q2w3e
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 04:50 pm
It is beacuse all the light is inside the convention center, and only darkness remains outside.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 04:53 pm
Re: assuming without proof
Debra_Law wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Acts of violence and vandalism are not free speech.


Holding a sign that says "No war for oil" is not an act of violence nor is it vandalism.


I agree, if one is holding that sign in a preiviously designated free speech zone.

If they are holding it within a restricted area around the President, they are just looking for trouble and will be obliged by lawful authorities.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 04:54 pm
don't understand
1q2w3e wrote:
The democrats seem to take it much further than the republicans, and to be much more hateful and disruptive when they protest.


I don't understand your statement or assumption. If what you say is true, then it must be assumed that all abortion protestors must be "democrats" because they murder doctors and bomb clinics. Is that what you mean by "hateful and disruptive" protests of the democrats?

I'm not sure if your condemnation of "democrats" has any basis in fact. Please educate us concerning your statement.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 04:57 pm
Re: assuming without proof
Larry434 wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Acts of violence and vandalism are not free speech.


Holding a sign that says "No war for oil" is not an act of violence nor is it vandalism.


I agree, if one is holding that sign in a preiviously designated free speech zone.

If they are holding it within a restricted area around the President, they are just looking for trouble and will be obliged by lawful authorities.


Please tell us Larry -- where is the "restricted area" anyway? Is it EVERYWHERE except the "free speech zone?" We want to know.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:04 pm
Why label all the protesters as main stream democrats. There are all flavors demonstrating. Many of the more violent ones are anarchists who travel from event to event to protest against the powers that be for a multitude of causes. At the present time they are protesting Bush and his policies. The same ones would more than likely be protesting against the Democrats were they in power. As to why they did not become violent at the democratic convention. What could they protest considering that the democrats were not in power or responsible for the current disasterous state of the union?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:09 pm
"disastrous state of the union...". Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:12 pm
AU1929 hit the nail right there on the head. It's BECAUSE of the fringe groups that everyone suffers. It's BECAUSE of the fringe groups that we have to have 'free speech zones'.

So, instead of blaming Bush, blame the people that are responsible for causing this in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:15 pm
Re: assuming without proof
Debra_Law wrote:
Larry434 wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
Acts of violence and vandalism are not free speech.


Holding a sign that says "No war for oil" is not an act of violence nor is it vandalism.


I agree, if one is holding that sign in a preiviously designated free speech zone.

If they are holding it within a restricted area around the President, they are just looking for trouble and will be obliged by lawful authorities.


Please tell us Larry -- where is the "restricted area" anyway? Is it EVERYWHERE except the "free speech zone?" We want to know.


Restricted areas around the President when he appears in public are pre-established in cooperation with local authorities by the advance detail of the Secret Service. The boundries of the restricted ares will vary from location to location, and they are enforced by the local authorities in concert with the Secret Service. Access to the restricted area is strictly controlled to protect the President. It is not likely anyone holding derogatory signs or shouting hateful words at the President would be admitted. Those doing so are first told to leave the restricted area, when they don't they are arrested and charged with violation of the restricted area around the President.

From our discussion last night I know you are familiar with many such incidents such as I noted above, notably the multiple Bursey cases where he did just what I described.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:16 pm
Why is a free speech area needed only for dissenters while people who are kissing Dubya's backside are allowed to go where they will? In this nation where everyone is supposedly equal why are some more equal than others? I wonder is Kerry afforded the same curtesy. Are his dissenters made to go to free speech zones?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:20 pm
au1929 wrote:
Why is a free speech area needed only for dissenters while people who are kissing Dubya's backside are allowed to go where they will? In this nation where everyone is supposedly equal why are some more equal than others? I wonder is Kerry afforded the same curtesy. Are his dissenters made to go to free speech zones?


After making such a nice point about it being both sides that protest, ehy follow it up with this bit of partianness? Why is automatically "people who are kissing Dubya's backside"? Is that who were in the cages during the DNC? Kerry was already afforded the courtesy of not having the ravenous packs of republicans yelling and spitting carrying signs all around Boston.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 05:29 pm
McG
In the event that you are not aware of it let me enlighten you. Dubya is afforded that privilege at every whistle stop he makes. That has nothing to do with the convention. A sign or word of dissent is not allowed to be seen by his squinty eyes or heard by his delicate ears. It reminds me of the story of the emperors new clothes. Everyone praised them even though he was naked.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 08:22 pm
AU, it also helps to remember that the Bush faithful are encouraged to believe that his opponents are crackpots--dangerous leftist radicals from an imaginary fringe, violent college students and the like. It wouldn't do for them to see "ordinary people" such as themselves protesting the Shrub's policies.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 09:39 pm
Re: assuming without proof
Larry434 wrote:
Restricted areas around the President when he appears in public are pre-established in cooperation with local authorities by the advance detail of the Secret Service. The boundries of the restricted ares will vary from location to location, and they are enforced by the local authorities in concert with the Secret Service. Access to the restricted area is strictly controlled to protect the President. It is not likely anyone holding derogatory signs or shouting hateful words at the President would be admitted. Those doing so are first told to leave the restricted area, when they don't they are arrested and charged with violation of the restricted area around the President.


Again, due process requires notice. Whenever a "restricted area" is established, the boundaries of said "restricted area" must be known. If you paid attention to the federal law and regulations that I previously posted, there must be a place of ingress and egress to the "restricted area." ONLY people authorized by the regulations are allowed to enter the "restricted area."

See the Justice Department -- Criminal Resource Manual

Quote:
Section 1752 of Title 18 provides for the exercise of Federal jurisdiction over disorders and misconduct in relation to Presidential residences, offices, and areas designated by the Secretary of the Treasury and restricted by regulations. It applies to any residence where the President may be located for any period of time, however brief in duration, provided the Secret Service is aware of the President's location. In the absence of such a designation by the Secretary of the Treasury, notice of such protected areas may be given by the posting of signs, cordoning off of the restricted area, or other forms of notice.


In order to comply with the requirements of the law -- you have to have NOTICE concerning the boundaries of the alleged "restricted area." The area must be posted, cordoned off, or designated as restricted through some other form of notice.

Bursey contends his First Amendment rights were trampled because police would not tell him the boundaries of the restricted area. Bursey twice moved farther from the hangar where Bush spoke, but police insisted that protesters go only to the demonstration area, Bursey testified.

The government refused to give Bursey NOTICE of the boundaries of the alleged "restricted area." I call it an alleged restricted area because all members of the public were allowed to stand or travel about and through the area. Only people with anti-Bush Administration signs were targeted and instructed to leave.

Bursey wasn't instructed to leave the "restricted area." Instead, he was instructed to go the designated demonstration zone. He wasn't arrested because he refused to leave a restricted area (the boundaries of which were unknown); he was arrested because he refused to go to the demonstration zone about a half-mile from where Bush addressed supporters in Doolittle hangar.

Bursey was deprived NOTICE of the boundaries of the alleged "restricted area." Thus, the law was unconstitutionally applied to him in violation of his due process rights and his right to free speech.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Sep, 2004 05:56 am
debra:

"police insisted that protesters go only to the demonstration area..."

In the bursey case there was an area designated for protesters so the boundries of the restricted area around the President are moot.

Had there been no such designated protest area they would have been relevant and bursey would indeed have had his due process rights violated if the boundries of the restricted area around the President were not been noticed to him.
0 Replies
 
CerealKiller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jan, 2006 02:06 am
Seems established that they can tell you where and when you can protest.

In De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353 (1937), the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the right to peaceably assemble "for lawful discussion, however unpopular the sponsorship, cannot be made a crime." The decision appled the First Amendment right of peaceful assembly to the states through the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The right of peaceable assembly protects the right to picket which has been used in labor disputes and civil rights and anti-war demonstrations. In general, picketing is protected when it is for a lawful purpose, conducted in an orderly manner, and publicizes a grievance of some kind.

Generally, parades or demonstrations can be controlled by local time, place, manner regulations as long as they are applied in a nondiscriminatory fashion and do not block such protected expression.
SC rulings

http://fact.trib.com/1st.assemble.html
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/29/2024 at 01:40:20