What's nastiest, Clinton V Sanders or Cameron V Johnson?

Forums: Politics, Europe, Democrats, Rivalry, Tories
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You're all familiar with the internecine fighting between Clinton and Sanders so I needn't elaborate. Over here the EU referendum has split the Tories with Cameron and Johnson leading rival camps, and it's starting to get pretty nasty.

Quote:

Lord Heseltine has said he would be "very surprised" if Boris Johnson became prime minister after his "preposterous, obscene" remarks during the European Union referendum campaign.

The ex-deputy prime minister, who is campaigning for Remain, said he feared Mr Johnson's "judgement is going".

It marked a further escalation of a war of words between Tories over the EU.

Mr Johnson earlier said it was a "bit too much" for David Cameron to say so-called IS would welcome an Out vote.

And in response to Lord Heseltine's comments a spokesman for Mr Johnson said it was "the arguments that matter".
On Sunday Mr Johnson, the former London mayor, compared the EU's aims in creating a "single authority" in Europe with Napoleon's and Hitler's.

He also suggested on Tuesday that David Cameron was "colluding" with business in the run-up to the 23 June referendum after a leaked letter from the boss of outsourcing firm Serco to the prime minister raised the question of business backing for the UK's EU membership as well as the further privatisation of the prison system.

Speaking to the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg, Lord Heseltine said the "strain" of the referendum campaign was "beginning to tell" on Mr Johnson and he had begun to make "preposterous obscene political remarks".

"He is behaving now irresponsibly, recklessly and I fear that his judgement is going," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36317176<br />

Not only that we've got the head of anti EU UKIP warning of violence if the vote does not go his way.

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[+3] - Tes yeux noirs - 05/17/2016[quote]What is the general public's view on the EU etc?[/quote] Depends who you ask. The lastest polls are around 50% each for Remain and Leave but one telephone poll acouple of days ago gave...

Johnson and Cameron are both nasty pieces of work, Johnson the more so in my opinion.

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@izzythepush,

That's not a race I've been following closely, can you provide any more background and color to those like me who are largely in the dark?

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Europe has long been the dividing line in the Conservative party. It helped bring down John Major after he signed the Maastricht Treaty.

Since the rise of the Eurosceptic UKIP Eurosceptic Tories have become increasingly at odds with the party's stance on Europe. The referendum is more about keeping the Tories together than what's right for Britain.

Now the infighting has become more public, and as the referendum draws closer it's getting more heated. Boris Johnson and David Cameron go back a long way, they were at Eton and Oxford together. Johnson always assumed he would be the more prominent politically as Cameron didn't get involved so much in politics while he was at Oxford while Johnson was very active.

The reverse happened, and the rivalry has not gone away. Johnson long considered himself heir apparent, but his siding with the Eurosceptics was seen as opportunistic and even treacherous by a lot of loyalist Tories.

Now it's got nasty and personal.

Europe doesn't affect the other parties to anywhere near the same extent. There are a few Eurosceptic Labour MPs but most of the party is pro Europe. The Liberals and SNP are both for staying in too.

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@Tes yeux noirs,

Agreed, it's not like Heseltine to talk in such, (for him,) strong terms about another Tory.

Johnson's affable persona masks a really Machiavellian money grubbing, self serving git.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

What is the general public's view on the EU etc?

I've always understood the Eurosceptic point of view, but still think that a united (as much as it can be described that way) Europe is an important counter balance to hegemony from larger powers than its individual countries. A counter balance to the US, China etc.

Of course it's a difficult unity to achieve and I get how hard it is to accept the economic woes of member states that have their own (often misguided) fiscal policy and it's something I imagine I'd be deeply conflicted about if I were in the UK.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

What is the general public's view on the EU etc?

Depends who you ask. The lastest polls are around 50% each for Remain and Leave but one telephone poll acouple of days ago gave Remain a 15% lead.

You do get loudmouthed Engerland-flag-waving White Van Men ranting on about being "ruled from Brussels" but they are not as representative as some would have you think. Nigel Farage is widely seen as an absolute arse, and the UKIP party has a big "bunch of tossers" image problem.

A lot of people are not excited about saying they want to remain: the passionate people here are those who want to leave. I think the status quo is less sexy but also less risky. I think I am very far from being alone in that.

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@Tes yeux noirs,

Makes sense, thanks.

0 Replies

@Tes yeux noirs,

There's also a generational thing. Younger people are far more pro Europe. The average age of the UKIP member is sixty odd.

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@izzythepush,

An appeal to tradition angle to them you think?

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@Robert Gentel,

A lot of them still go on about the War. Brussels is viewed as a big bureaucracy that swallows up British money. They leave camp always gives the gross figure, ignoring what comes back, but there's no mention of what this money is doing in Eastern European countries, improving infrastructure and the like.

Unfortunately a lot of the Leave Campaign's argument comes down to immigration, and some of it has been quite nasty. The racists all want to leave, that's a given.

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What's nastiest, Clinton V Sanders or Cameron V Johnson?

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