0
   

LIBERATION

 
 
Setanta
 
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 08:02 am
THE SURRENDER MONKEYS RUN THE GERMANS OUT.

On this day, 60 years ago, Paris was liberated from the Germans. Apparently, the majority of the French continue to believe that the "forces of the interior" (a.k.a., the resistance), were responsible for the liberation of the city. The French Second Armored division under General Le Clerc still had some hard fighting to punch its way into the city. Most American commentators contend that the 5th Armored division and the 79th Infantry were held back to give Le Clerc's division the honor of entering the city first. Le Clerc is a nom de guerre, adopted by Phillipe François Marie de Hautecloque to avoid reprisals against his family when he took up arms against first the Vichy in Africa, and then fighting the Germans in France.

Obviously, whatever version of events one wishes to assert as the true account, this is a special day for the French.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,551 • Replies: 13
No top replies

 
Nescio
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 09:11 am
In fact, the first tanks rolling into Paris were bearing names like Belchite, Guernica, Guadalajara & Madrid.

The German governor, Dietrich von Choltitz, of Paris surrendered to a Spanish soldier two hours before he signed the capitulation of his forces in August 1944.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 09:42 am
That's an interesting contention on your part. Do you have a source for it? I've casually looked aroudn the web, but find nothing to support it. I do know that Spanish facists formed a volunteer unit which served with the Germans in Russia. I am rather curious to know what Spaniards would be doing out in front of the advance of the XVth Corps, Third United States Army.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 10:03 am
Here's a link to Ernie Pyle's account of the entry into Paris.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 10:08 am
The following statement is from a brief biograhpical notice on General Le Clerc: "That evening [August 24, 1944]a gap was found in the German lines and at 9:22 p.m. Captain Raymond Dionne's tank, "Romilly" and two other Shermans pulled up in front of the Paris City Hall."

If there were Spanish socialists in Le Clerc's division, i'd be interested to see the source.
0 Replies
 
Nescio
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 10:52 am
Setanta wrote:
The following statement is from a brief biograhpical notice on General Le Clerc: "That evening [August 24, 1944]a gap was found in the German lines and at 9:22 p.m. Captain Raymond Dionne's tank, "Romilly" and two other Shermans pulled up in front of the Paris City Hall."

If there were Spanish socialists in Le Clerc's division, i'd be interested to see the source.

Indeed it has not been mentioned often:
http://mondediplo.com/2004/08/13spaniards

Otherwise I have only a french link:
http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20040825.FIG0315.html

Their officer was called Amado Granell

"D'autres faits sont moins connus. Par exemple, la présence dans la 2e DB d'Espagnols républicains soucieux de poursuivre jusqu'à son terme la lutte contre le «fascisme». Les noms de leurs chars - Belchite, Guernica, Guadalajara, Madrid - rappelaient quelques-uns des événements les plus fameux de la guerre civile. Un de ces officiers espagnols, Amado Granell, fut l'un des premiers à entrer dans Paris avec le capitaine Dronne, et ce sont également des Espagnols qui forcèrent, rue de Rivoli, les portes de l'hôtel Meurice qui servait de quartier général au général von Choltitz."
0 Replies
 
Nescio
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 11:01 am
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 11:21 am
Nescio wrote:
D'autres faits sont moins connus. Par exemple, la présence dans la 2e DB d'Espagnols républicains soucieux de poursuivre jusqu'à son terme la lutte contre le «fascisme». Les noms de leurs chars - Belchite, Guernica, Guadalajara, Madrid - rappelaient quelques-uns des événements les plus fameux de la guerre civile. Un de ces officiers espagnols, Amado Granell, fut l'un des premiers à entrer dans Paris avec le capitaine Dronne, et ce sont également des Espagnols qui forcèrent, rue de Rivoli, les portes de l'hôtel Meurice qui servait de quartier général au général von Choltitz."


"Other facts are less well known. For example, the presence in the 2nd Armored Division of republican Spaniards anxious to pursue to its conclusion the struggle against fascism. The names of their tanks--Blechite, Guernica, Guadalajara, Madrid--recalled some of the most famous events of the civil war. One of the Spanish officers, Armado Granell, was one of the first to enter Paris with Captain Dronne [?, identical with Capt. Dionne, as named above?], and it was, equally, Spaniards who forced the doors of the Hotel Meurice in the rue de Rivoli, which served as the General Staff offices of General von Choltitz."

Excellent work, Boss, thank you.
0 Replies
 
Nescio
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 01:54 pm
Setanta wrote:
Nescio wrote:
D'autres faits sont moins connus. Par exemple, la présence dans la 2e DB d'Espagnols républicains soucieux de poursuivre jusqu'à son terme la lutte contre le «fascisme». Les noms de leurs chars - Belchite, Guernica, Guadalajara, Madrid - rappelaient quelques-uns des événements les plus fameux de la guerre civile. Un de ces officiers espagnols, Amado Granell, fut l'un des premiers à entrer dans Paris avec le capitaine Dronne, et ce sont également des Espagnols qui forcèrent, rue de Rivoli, les portes de l'hôtel Meurice qui servait de quartier général au général von Choltitz."


"Other facts are less well known. For example, the presence in the 2nd Armored Division of republican Spaniards anxious to pursue to its conclusion the struggle against fascism. The names of their tanks--Blechite, Guernica, Guadalajara, Madrid--recalled some of the most famous events of the civil war. One of the Spanish officers, Armado Granell, was one of the first to enter Paris with Captain Dronne [?, identical with Capt. Dionne, as named above?], and it was, equally, Spaniards who forced the doors of the Hotel Meurice in the rue de Rivoli, which served as the General Staff offices of General von Choltitz."

Excellent work, Boss, thank you.

you're welcome. just read it by change today.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 02:02 pm
Setanta wrote:


I wonder if Iraq will ever have a liberation like this?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 02:42 pm
Well, when someone like Allawi--our hand-picked boy from among the Sunni Arab minority which has dominated and abused the Shi'ite majority for years--is in charge, i rather doubt we'll see that anytime soon, Boss.
0 Replies
 
BlackWatch
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 05:37 pm
...
Surrender Monkies?

What a racist statement.

I will have to think of what other peoples I can describe as
[___] monkies.

Wait - I am not a racist - so never mind.

//BW
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2004 08:24 pm
It's a jab at the conservatives at this site, Mr. Holier Than Thou, who are fond of suggesting that the French can't or won't fight . . .
0 Replies
 
La Nueve in Texas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2005 05:54 am
Liberation
Fortunately, the participation of Spaniards in the Allied cause is coming to light; there is, I recall, some color footage (possibly taken by George Stevens' Signal Corps outfit) of French 2d AD tanks entering Paris. One of the vehicles, an M5A1 light tank, is christened "Santander."
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, EVERYONE! - Discussion by OmSigDAVID
WIND AND WATER - Discussion by Setanta
Who ordered the construction of the Berlin Wall? - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
True version of Vlad Dracula, 15'th century - Discussion by gungasnake
ONE SMALL STEP . . . - Discussion by Setanta
History of Gun Control - Discussion by gungasnake
Where did our notion of a 'scholar' come from? - Discussion by TuringEquivalent
 
  1. Forums
  2. » LIBERATION
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 03/03/2021 at 04:11:23