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Christian discussion

 
 
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 05:42 pm
How can a all powerful and loving God allow for so much suffering??
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Type: Question • Score: 12 • Views: 13,272 • Replies: 198

 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 06:03 pm
Oh, well . . . there's a novel question.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 06:05 pm
@rrasmussen ,
You're make readers suffer with poor grammar.
rrasmussen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 07:40 pm
@Ragman,
What are your thoughts on this topic?
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 07:40 pm
The answer is free will.
An omnipotent and all-loving God encourages people, at their own discretion, to seek His wisdom and love in order to get rid of the suffering.
And what do leading scientists say about free will? That is a key and I leave it for you to study.
rrasmussen
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 07:44 pm
@Setanta,
It is. What are your thoughts on it?
rrasmussen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 07:48 pm
@oristarA,
I believe that because of free will we have sin and because of sin we have suffering. The only way to not be tied down by sin is repentance and believe in Jesus Christ. That is what I believe. (John 3:16)
oristarA
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2016 09:26 pm
@rrasmussen ,
Free will is neutral, not sinful.

And there is no such thing as the original sin.

It's natural for a child, let alone an adult, to explore their environment, to try to think things independently. Eve was a good girl who risked her life to find out the truth about the fruit which God said could lead to death by eating or touching it. She should have been encouraged and praised for her sincere effort because she didn't intend to violate God's will but tried to discover a new food. Nothing is more natural for humans to seek new foods.

God should have explicitly declared that touching or eating the fruit is a violation of His law. No such law has been enacted by God and so Eve violated no law and should not be sinned.

God, the Father of Heaven, like humans, also eats food. So a new food should have pleased Him as well. Now Eve, violating no law of God, risked her life to have discovered a new food to eat, shouldn't she be complimented for being cute and brave?

Parents make mistakes, and so does God. Eve's adventure proved that Dad/God was wrong about the fruit. An open-minded, kind-hearted parent should have praised such a child as a genius, rather than reprimanded them as sinful.

And I think, Eve, along with Adam, after eating the fruit, should have joyfully said to God when He appeared: "Dad/God, the fruit is safe to eat. We have found a new food!"

A truly loving Dad/God should have answered with"I'm so proud of you, my children. That is a great discovery."

Instead, the foolish Dad/God abused them and drove them away from home, which led to endless unnecessary suffering of his children.

The only sinner here is Dad/God.

(OristarA April 2016)
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2016 01:30 am
@rrasmussen ,
You don't do well with irony, huh? The question is not novel, it's a dead horse here which has been beaten again and again. My thought is, that as i have no reason to believe that there is a god, i have no reason to fall for any claptrap about "god's plan," or "god moves in mysterious ways," nor any other theist foolishness.
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:09 pm
@rrasmussen ,
I think it's because he doesn't like us...
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:47 pm
@rrasmussen ,
With free will comes the opportunity for great pain. It just goes with the territory.
All struggles involve a great deal of pain.
The climber who chooses to climb Mt Everest will in all probability experience great pain. It doesn't mean he sinned.

Even God has the limits of reason and logic. Even if 'all powerful' was a thing, he can't escape those limits if he is a loving God..
0 Replies
 
rrasmussen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:23 am
@oristarA,
Genesis 3:3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die" God made it very clear to both Adam and Eve that they could eat any other fruit in the garden but not the one tree in the middle of the garden. We are not sure whether God ate or not but he gave Adam and Eve free will but placing that one tree in the garden. He gave them a chose to obey his commandment or to disobey his commandment and be punished.
rrasmussen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:33 am
@TomTomBinks,
God loves all his people! When he created the world he created the option for sin but didn't create the sin. This is free will, the right to chose good and evil and we chose evil by eating the forbidden fruit which caused the fall of man. God loved his people so much that he gave his ONLY Son who died a painful death on the cross to take our sin away. All we need to do is repent and believe in Christ and when the time comes we will have eternal life with no pain or suffering. That is amazing love!
TomTomBinks
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:03 pm
@rrasmussen ,
My response is a "raspberry". It's when you put your tongue between your lips and blow out to make a rude sound. I wish I knew how to spell it.
Robert Gentel
 
  5  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 11:10 pm
@rrasmussen ,
I don't believe in any gods but the theological answer to this common question has always been that the Christian god wants humans to have free will and that the suffering is the result of that.

I don't happen to believe that but it is what the standard answer is in Christian theology.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 12:32 am
@rrasmussen ,
Well, who do you believe is in control of our world? If you say God, then how could Satan have offered the world to Jesus as in Matthew 4:8,9?

There is much more to your question then you may think.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 06:20 am
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
I don't believe in any gods but the theological answer to this common question has always been that the Christian god wants humans to have free will and that the suffering is the result of that.
Even if you don't believe in God, this explanation passes the test of reason and logic. I don't know why the question has to be posed over and over again in the face of a satisfactory answer.

If there is a reason to doubt this answer, let theists bring it up. That would be a much more productive discussion.
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 08:52 am
@rrasmussen ,
rrasmussen wrote:

Genesis 3:3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die" God made it very clear to both Adam and Eve that they could eat any other fruit in the garden but not the one tree in the middle of the garden.


He said it ON THE CONDITION that eating or touching it will lead to death. If the condition is false, the judgement/commandment will be invalid. So it could be most likely seen as a test of Eve's and Adam's intelligence, rather than a test of sense of justice - the daughter and son think their father wants to see how smart they are. They acted and risked their lives to find out the truth - they should be praised, not punished.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 08:58 am
A loving father/God?

The evidence of first family abuse - the father was clothed while the son and the daughter were naked, with no clothes to wear:

http://free-stories.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/biblestoryofeve.jpg
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 09:56 am
@Leadfoot,
I think this is a common question not because the answer is bad but because the question is a good one despite it.
0 Replies
 
 

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