revel wrote:Everyone agrees, Saddam was a bad man and it is better that he is gone. But that is all that can be said that is any good.
Brandon9000 wrote:Apparently the original poster doesn't agree to that at all.
Your logic seems to be:
1. People died in the war.
2. Therefore, the war should not have been fought.
This specific logic you have stated could be used to argue that no war should ever have been fought. Unless you actually do believe that, then it follows that your logic is incorrect.
revel wrote:Usually in a just war there is something at end of it that made it worth all the cost of lives. (I hate saying that; for some reason it don't sit well) This war didn't work out that way at all.
It was worthwhile because after 12 years, we were still not sure that he had destroyed his WMD and his WMD programs. Had he retained either, then down the road one single WMD smuggled into the US could have been used to kill as many as a million people depending on the type of WMD. That's a lot of people. A latter day Hitler figure like Hussein simply could not be allowed to possess this type of weapon. He had had WMD, he had used them, and he had lied about them, and the totality of the experience with him made many people believe that he still had something hidden, as he well may have. Had he given us clear evidence that they had all been destroyed, which he could easlily have done, we would have left him there to torture and oppress his people to his heart's content for the rest of his life.
revel wrote:For one thing, at the outset; no one trust the Bush administration in the first place, they proved us right with abuses that was allowed to flourish with the prisons and haliburturn. (however you spell that)
(a) Millions of Americans trusted Bush and still do.
(b) There is no evidence that Bush was personally responsible for abuses in prison interrogation. Thousands and thousands of people were court martialled under Clinton, but no one tried to make him accountable for every soldier's abuses.
(c) Although the people responsible for the prision abuses should be prosecuted vigorously, as they are being, we might want to note here that the other side kidnaps civilians for blackmail, and then saws their heads of while they are still alive and conscious. This is quite a lot worse than anything our soldiers did, and I resent the double standard.
revel wrote:For another; we had a bigger problem at the time that trumped worrying about Saddam who was for most part; contained at the time and could have waited.
If Hussein had retained his WMD and WMD programs, we would have had a finite time window of opportunity in which to act. Had he attained enough of a stockpile of WMD and hidden them really safely, or had he gone nuclear with purchased fissionable material, he could have made a later invasion of Iraq nearly impossible, and then continued to build up more WMD as North Korea is probably now doing. What does "containment" mean in an era in which someone can smuggle a WMD into your country and strike a crippling blow against you from within while you attempt to "contain" him? You're living the past.
revel wrote:For another; it wasn't planned out well for things that might not have gone the way the thought it would. In other words, they thought everyone would be so overjoyed to have gotten rid of such an evil man that they would greet them with flowers and the like. It didn't happen and they didn't plan for things not turing out like they thought.
Wars are often messy. When we occupied various countries after WW 2 and converted them into democracies, we didn't have to worry about a campaign by insurgents who think nothing of planting bombs that blow up their own citizens. You cannot expect any administration to turn a war into a surgical in and out operation. If a war has to be fought, as I believe this one did, then it may indeed be difficult and messy as many wars have been in the past.
revel wrote:Which is why Iraq is in the horrible shape it is now. Sure, they are rid of Saddam and his bad boys. But look what they are living in now. It is like they traded one hell for another and how is that better?
The hell they are in now, is the work of the insurgents, not the Americans. We are trying to eliminate the insurgents and rebuild the country. Furthermore, now, at least the people are not executed or tortured for stating a political opinion. They are not at the mercy of a government of evil, insane kings and princes, and they have at least an opportunity for a decent future, particularly if people like you would stop chanting that only gloom and doom lie ahead.