What does that make me?

<applause, applause>

They're rioting in Africa (whistling)
They're starving in Spain (whistling)
There's hurricanes in Flo-ri-da (whistling)
And Texas needs rain
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
AND I DON'T LIKE ANYBODY VERY MUCH!!

But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud
And we know for certain that some lovely day
Someone will set the spark off
AND WE WILL ALL BE BLOWN AWAY!!

They're rioting in Africa (whistling)
There's strife in Iran
What nature doesn't so to us
Will be done by our fellow *man*---<*man* is sung off-key>

Kingston Trio -- 1959!

Ferrous - the move by some Aboriginal people towards returning to a more traditional life-style is very much an Aboriginal-led thing.

Whether it will be useful or not remains to be seen - certainly some communities seem to be thriving - others not.

Where there is a strong leadership by tribal elders - and a strong contribution by women - (who have been very active in banning alchohol and petrol sniffing from some communities - since the results of those things are extreme domestic violence and child abuse, as well as the health effects on the partakers themselves) -
there seems to be some success.

Of course Aboriginal people can do as they like - however, they would acknowledge that the invisible boundaries caused by invasion, cultural dislocation and a generation or two of a government policy of removal of mixed-race children (the effects of this are still being felt as the reverberations of fractured parenting on this generation of parents is still felt) - as well as racism, affect their chances.

There is a slow development of a black middle-class and more opportunities - there have long been programs to try to raise Aboriginal access to higher education, jobs and retention in the school system.

Well, Wilso, I am a victim of the similar problem. When I bought my current apartment, I was unaware that the Arab neighborhood was too close to the place I bought a realty. In two years, price of my realty plunged from US $72K to $35K... Local Arabs in general do not pose security threat (at least, they do not act openly, but from time to time some of the Israeli Arab citizens that collaborate with terror groups of the West Bank and Gaza are being arrested), but their neighborhood soon became a national Mecca of drug addicts: many Arab families are heavily involved in drugs dealing.
Some of their junkie clients appear on the streets of my neighborhood, and they steal. I have a real problem to get rid of this realty of mine, but I cannot find a dummy that will buy it.

Well said, Wilso... if there is any more stirring of this particular pot, it won't be me doing it...

Doncha wish you asked another question about interior painting?

1959, huh.

So, we're 43 years on and ...

they're not starving in Spain anymore!

Such progress ...

Right on Wilso ;-)

Bravo Wilso !! Bravo !!

Compassion is a Virtue
"Unfortunately when I see a street get terrorised, I want to dislike aboriginals, but when the government won't apologise for taking so many from their families over many years, I want to dislike whites, and when a suicide bomber blows up a shopping centre, I want to dislike palestinians, but when the Israeli's retaliate with gunships I want to dislike them, and when George Jnr wants to bomb anyone he doesn't like, I want to dislike America, and when Australia blindly follows, I want to dislike Australia, and if Captain Cook hadn't sailed into Botany Bay 233 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and maybe I'm a racist or a fascist, or a communist, or a nazi or maybe the world just friggin' sucks"

Poor Wilso, Looks like he's trapped in the bottle, looking out. It's called "Linerar Thinking."

In time, one learns to step out of the bottle, and look at the situation from a distance, taking in the whole picture.

"when I see a street get terrorised, I want to dislike aboriginals" Which aboriginals? Or, are you just lumping all of "them" together?

"when George Jnr wants to bomb anyone he doesn't like, I want to dislike America and when Australia blindly follows, I want to dislike Australia" This one I'll dismiss, as only your ignorant partisan politics. If you want to argue politics, do it in the political forum. Don't waste my time, here.

"when the government won't apologise for taking so many from their families over many years, I want to dislike whites" Is this the "invisible wall" that was talked about? Why do you refer to government as "white?" Where is Australia's diversity?

"when a suicide bomber blows up a shopping centre, I want to dislike Palestinians" Don't you wonder why a child has grown up wanting to strap a bomb around his or her waist and kill and maim to further promote some religious or political ideology?

"when the Israeli's retaliate with gunships I want to dislike them" I think the key word here is retaliate, not to say that Israel has not also been the aggressor at times.

"if Captain Cook hadn't sailed into Botany Bay 233 years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation." Was Captain Cook, white? Enough said.

"and maybe I'm a racist or a fascist, or a communist, or a nazi." You are a product of your environment just like some of these aboriginals that you dislike so much, for terrorizing a street. For me to call you a racist, because of your environmental background, would be labeling me a bigot as well. I asked a question, because I wish to bring some light to the subject. Your answers are still leaving us in the dark.

"maybe the world just friggin' sucks" That is your opinion, that you have to live with. For me, the world is a wonder that I revel in, every day. I try to do my part, thou, to make it a better place for everything to live in harmony.

All these people waiting for the second coming of Christ? Your wait is over. His name is ferrous.


And he comes from California. Why aren't I surprised?

I believe we are all racist. I am, you are, we all are.

BTW what is the definition of a racist? Difficult to pinpoint. Racism is generally considered a bad thing.

Am I a racist because I believe black women have better figures than white women?
Yes I am. If I am of the opinion that one race is different to another and applying that generalization across the board then that is racism.

Am I a racist because I find a certain race physically less attractive than most other races?
You betcha.

If I am asked to sit in a room with a room full of
1. one race, different to my own
2. a variety of races
3. my own race
How would I feel inside? You bet I would feel differently in each of the differing scenarios above and that is also racism. It is having an emotional reaction to people based on their looks and how I perceive them to be in relation to me.

Of course it is one thing to feel what you feel inside (good, bad, or indifferent) it is quite another thing to make it known to others and/or hurt people with it.

I am not sure that Wilso actually hurt anyone with his decision to not move into a neighborhood that he chose not to live in.

We all make decisions every day that are affected by the looks, behavior and words of other people around us. Do we have a name for each of our pre-conceived preferences regarding these looks, behaviors and words? Sometimes. You will notice that fat people are treated less well than slim people. Attractive people receive better responses than unattractive people. Men get more respect than women. Should I go on?

Heeven, I don't know what world you live in, but your two examples are not really good examples. Figures and atttractive has nothing to do with racism, unless you are blind. c.i.

Apparently I hurt ferrous. And he/she doesn't even live in the same country as me!

c.i., yeah, I do think awareness of race in and of itself is different from racism.

That said, I think Wilso's last long post explains a lot, and agree with snood (hmm, I seem to do that fairly often) that this particular pot doesn't call for much more stirring.

But that's what I asked when I said "define racism".

Does racism have to identify the mistreatment of one race

or

can it simply be a preference or decision-making using any or all factors (sex, age, appearance, intelligence, background, clothing, social standing) including race?

If I say "I don't care for X" and do nothing to mistreat, abuse, or harm in any way this race, doesn't that still make me a racist?

Heeven, There's a big difference between what one thinks and what one does. All humans have different likes and dislikes. That doesn't necessarily mean all humans are racist. My philosophy of life is to treat all living things with respect and dignity. It does not consider race in any way, but I'm sure there are things that people may do that may upset me. It has nothing to do with race or racism. c.i.

I see, Heeven. This is the M-W definition:

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

It does say "belief", in and of itself. However your examples weren't talking about "primary determinant of human traits" I would tend more towards the 2nd definition -- actually doing something discriminatory.

Hasn't discrimination taken place, although unbeknownst to the neighbors?

In essence both factors apply:
- The human traits of Australian Aborigines being considered as unkempt and unsafe.
- Discrimination, in that Wilso decided not to move into the neighborhood because of them.

If Wilso had said to the agent that he would not move into the neighborhood because he didn't want to live among Aborigines, who he believed they were dirty and criminals, would you, as the real estate agent, have thought "racism"?

Or, how about this .... what if the real estate agent was an Aborigine?