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F.B.I. Goes Knocking for Political Troublemakers

 
 
au1929
 
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 09:52 am
F.B.I. Goes Knocking for Political Troublemakers


By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: August 16, 2004


WASHINGTON, Aug. 15 - The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been questioning political demonstrators across the country, and in rare cases even subpoenaing them, in an aggressive effort to forestall what officials say could be violent and disruptive protests at the Republican National Convention in New York.

F.B.I. officials are urging agents to canvass their communities for information about planned disruptions aimed at the convention and other coming political events, and they say they have developed a list of people who they think may have information about possible violence. They say the inquiries, which began last month before the Democratic convention in Boston, are focused solely on possible crimes, not on dissent, at major political events.

But some people contacted by the F.B.I. say they are mystified by the bureau's interest and felt harassed by questions about their political plans.

"The message I took from it," said Sarah Bardwell, 21, an intern at a Denver antiwar group who was visited by six investigators a few weeks ago, "was that they were trying to intimidate us into not going to any protests and to let us know that, 'hey, we're watching you.' ''

The unusual initiative comes after the Justice Department, in a previously undisclosed legal opinion, gave its blessing to controversial tactics used last year by the F.B.I in urging local police departments to report suspicious activity at political and antiwar demonstrations to counterterrorism squads. The F.B.I. bulletins that relayed the request for help detailed tactics used by demonstrators - everything from violent resistance to Internet fund-raising and recruitment.

In an internal complaint, an F.B.I. employee charged that the bulletins improperly blurred the line between lawfully protected speech and illegal activity. But the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, in a five-page internal analysis obtained by The New York Times, disagreed.

The office, which also made headlines in June in an opinion - since disavowed - that authorized the use of torture against terrorism suspects in some circumstances, said any First Amendment impact posed by the F.B.I.'s monitoring of the political protests was negligible and constitutional.

The opinion said: "Given the limited nature of such public monitoring, any possible 'chilling' effect caused by the bulletins would be quite minimal and substantially outweighed by the public interest in maintaining safety and order during large-scale demonstrations."

Those same concerns are now central to the vigorous efforts by the F.B.I. to identify possible disruptions by anarchists, violent demonstrators and others at the Republican National Convention, which begins Aug. 30 and is expected to draw hundreds of thousands of protesters.

In the last few weeks, beginning before the Democratic convention, F.B.I. counterterrorism agents and other federal and local officers have sought to interview dozens of people in at least six states, including past protesters and their friends and family members, about possible violence at the two conventions. In addition, three young men in Missouri said they were trailed by federal agents for several days and subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury last month, forcing them to cancel their trip to Boston to take part in a protest there that same day.

Interrogations have generally covered the same three questions, according to some of those questioned and their lawyers: were demonstrators planning violence or other disruptions, did they know anyone who was, and did they realize it was a crime to withhold such information.

A handful of protesters at the Boston convention were arrested but there were no major disruptions. Concerns have risen for the Republican convention, however, because of antiwar demonstrations directed at President Bush and because of New York City's global prominence.

With the F.B.I. given more authority after the Sept. 11 attacks to monitor public events, the tensions over the convention protests, coupled with the Justice Department's own legal analysis of such monitoring, reflect the fine line between protecting national security in an age of terrorism and discouraging political expression.

Story





What do you think has our government gone over the line and attempting to stifle political dissent? Bush is fighting 'allegedly "for democracy elsewhere while busily trying to curtail it in the US.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 09:58 am
And they had the nerve about complaining about our cages?

this whole election thing is getting out of hand.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:00 am
In a thread started a few months ago, one of our members contended that the Republican mayor of New York intended to stifle dissent, and that the evidence was the refusal of the Parks Department to allow protestors to camp out in the Great Meadow. I pointed out then that both parties would like to stifle dissent if they were able. The principle difference is Ashcroft and the FBI, resources not available to the Democrats.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:14 am
Setanta
Setanta, can another House Unamerican Activities Committee and Loyalty Oaths be lurking in the basement? I urge the younger generation to start reading up on the 1950s to avoid a repetition of a time of shame.

BBB

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAhuac.htm

http://www.pinkmonkey.com/studyguides/subjects/am_his/chap11/a1111501.asp
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:19 am
Although i doubt that HUAC per se would be resurrected, i would point out that there is already an attitude prevalent in everyday life in which one is attacked as traitorous for expressing any criticism of the current administration or the war in Iraq.

I rather think, BBB, that we are not far from exactly that climate in the polity.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:24 am
Setanta
Setanta, we already have loyalty oaths being required of people wanting to attend Bush or Cheney campaign rallies.

So many of the younger generation have no knowledge of what happened during the Joe McCarthy period and they must become aware in order to fight the trend I see in that direction.

BBB
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:42 am
More on the Bush brothers Gestapo tactics.

OP-ED COLUMNIST

Suppress the Vote?

By BOB HERBERT

Published: August 16, 2004

The big story out of Florida over the weekend was the tragic devastation caused by Hurricane Charley. But there's another story from Florida that deserves our attention.

State police officers have gone into the homes of elderly black voters in Orlando and interrogated them as part of an odd "investigation" that has frightened many voters, intimidated elderly volunteers and thrown a chill over efforts to get out the black vote in November.

The officers, from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which reports to Gov. Jeb Bush, say they are investigating allegations of voter fraud that came up during the Orlando mayoral election in March.

Officials refused to discuss details of the investigation, other than to say that absentee ballots are involved. They said they had no idea when the investigation might end, and acknowledged that it may continue right through the presidential election.

"We did a preliminary inquiry into those allegations and then we concluded that there was enough evidence to follow through with a full criminal investigation," said Geo Morales, a spokesman for the Department of Law Enforcement.

The state police officers, armed and in plain clothes, have questioned dozens of voters in their homes. Some of those questioned have been volunteers in get-out-the-vote campaigns.

I asked Mr. Morales in a telephone conversation to tell me what criminal activity had taken place.

"I can't talk about that," he said.

I asked if all the people interrogated were black.

"Well, mainly it was a black neighborhood we were looking at - yes,'' he said.

He also said, "Most of them were elderly."

When I asked why, he said, "That's just the people we selected out of a random sample to interview."

Back in the bad old days, some decades ago, when Southern whites used every imaginable form of chicanery to prevent blacks from voting, blacks often fought back by creating voters leagues, which were organizations that helped to register, educate and encourage black voters. It became a tradition that continues in many places, including Florida, today.

Not surprisingly, many of the elderly black voters who found themselves face to face with state police officers in Orlando are members of the Orlando League of Voters, which has been very successful in mobilizing the city's black vote.

The president of the Orlando League of Voters is Ezzie Thomas, who is 73 years old. With his demonstrated ability to deliver the black vote in Orlando, Mr. Thomas is a tempting target for supporters of George W. Bush in a state in which the black vote may well spell the difference between victory and defeat.

The vile smell of voter suppression is all over this so-called investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

Joseph Egan, an Orlando lawyer who represents Mr. Thomas, said: "The Voters League has workers who go into the community to do voter registration, drive people to the polls and help with absentee ballots. They are elderly women mostly. They get paid like $100 for four or five months' work, just to offset things like the cost of their gas. They see this political activity as an important contribution to their community. Some of the people in the community had never cast a ballot until the league came to their door and encouraged them to vote."

Now, said Mr. Egan, the fear generated by state police officers going into people's homes as part of an ongoing criminal investigation related to voting is threatening to undo much of the good work of the league. He said, "One woman asked me, 'Am I going to go to jail now because I voted by absentee ballot?' "

According to Mr. Egan, "People who have voted by absentee ballot for years are refusing to allow campaign workers to come to their homes. And volunteers who have participated for years in assisting people, particularly the elderly or handicapped, are scared and don't want to risk a criminal investigation."

Florida is a state that's very much in play in the presidential election, with some polls showing John Kerry in the lead. A heavy-handed state police investigation that throws a blanket of fear over thousands of black voters can only help President Bush.

The long and ugly tradition of suppressing the black vote is alive and thriving in the Sunshine State.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:49 am
Shame
SHAME!

BBB
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:50 am
Re: Setanta
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Setanta, we already have loyalty oaths being required of people wanting to attend Bush or Cheney campaign rallies.

So many of the younger generation have no knowledge of what happened during the Joe McCarthy period and they must become aware in order to fight the trend I see in that direction.

BBB


They're not listening and they don't care.....they care about consumerism and what they see on tv....
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:53 am
BPB
BPB, shame on our education system and shame on the ignorant children's parents.

BBB
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 10:59 am
Re: BPB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
BPB, shame on our education system and shame on the ignorant children's parents.

BBB


this is a long term project to develop a country of the bush demographic...this is bigger than bush and is ongoing...clinton was an accidental bump in the road.....that's my firm belief.....call me a conspiracy nut....I could care less....
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Aug, 2004 11:10 am
BPB
BPB, we agree that Clinton was an abberation on the road to The New World Order or The American Century.

Ah, Yalies, we are poor little lambs who have lost our way, bah, bah, bah.....

BBB
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 08:51 am
NYTimes.com > Opinion

Interrogating the Protesters


Published: August 17, 2004


For several weeks, starting before the Democratic convention, F.B.I. officers have been questioning potential political demonstrators, and their friends and families, about their plans to protest at the two national conventions. These heavy-handed inquiries are intimidating, and they threaten to chill freedom of expression. They also appear to be a spectacularly poor use of limited law-enforcement resources. The F.B.I. should redirect its efforts to focus more directly on real threats.

Six investigators recently descended on Sarah Bardwell, a 21-year-old intern with a Denver antiwar group, who quite reasonably took away the message that the government was watching her closely. In Missouri, three men in their early 20's said they had been followed by federal investigators for days, then subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury. They ended up canceling their plans to show up for the Democratic and Republican conventions.

The F.B.I. is going forward with the blessing of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel - the same outfit that recently approved the use of torture against terrorism suspects. In the Justice Department's opinion, the chilling effect of the investigations is "quite minimal," and "substantially outweighed by the public interest in maintaining safety and order." But this analysis gets the balance wrong. When protesters are made to feel like criminal suspects, the chilling effect is potentially quite serious. And the chances of gaining any information that would be useful in stopping violence are quite small.

The knock on the door from government investigators asking about political activities is the stuff of totalitarian regimes. It is intimidating to be visited by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, particularly by investigators who warn that withholding information about anyone with plans to create a disruption is a crime.

And few people would want the F.B.I. to cross-examine their friends and family about them. If engaging in constitutionally protected speech means subjecting yourself to this kind of government monitoring, many Americans may decide - as the men from Missouri did - that the cost is too high.

Meanwhile, history suggests that the way to find out what potentially violent protesters are planning is not to send F.B.I. officers bearing questionnaires to the doorsteps of potential demonstrators. As became clear in the 1960's, F.B.I. monitoring of youthful dissenters is notoriously unreliable. The files that were created in the past often proved to be laughably inaccurate.

The F.B.I.'s questioning of protesters is part of a larger campaign against political dissent that has increased sharply since the start of the war on terror.

At the Democratic convention, protesters were sent to a depressing barbed-wire camp under the subway tracks. And at a recent Bush-Cheney campaign event, audience members were required to sign a pledge to support President Bush before they were admitted.

F.B.I. officials insist that the people they interview are free to "close the door in our faces," but by then the damage may already have been done. The government must not be allowed to turn a war against foreign enemies into a campaign against critics at home.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 06:18 pm
http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 06:48 pm
au1929's citation of Bob Herbert's NYT column, posted on the first page of this thread, is worth a re-read.

And as you re-read it, keep in mind that Bush can't win without Florida, and that elderly blacks in Florida are overwhelmingly Democratic.

(But for those who can't be bothered to click one page back, I will summarize):

Armed police officers have been showing up at the homes of elderly African-Americans in Orlando, many of them active in get-out-the-vote activities, and scaring the crap out of them.

The "investigation" (which officials refuse to discuss, or course) is explained by a lawyer representing the 73-year-old president of the Orlando League of Voters, one of the recipients of this compassionate-conservative treatment:

Quote:
According to Mr. Egan, "People who have voted by absentee ballot for years are refusing to allow campaign workers to come to their homes. And volunteers who have participated for years in assisting people, particularly the elderly or handicapped, are scared and don't want to risk a criminal investigation."


Is there anything the Bush goons won't stoop to?

These people aren't just unfit for office; they're unfit for basic citizenship.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 07:05 pm
You could probably find evil in Ghandhi if you tried hard enough.

This is a typical over-reaction by the left. The only thing being done is an investigation into the alleged voter fraud that occurred during the 2000 election. They are following up on people that vote by absentee ballot to be sure they are actually alive and who they say they are. That's it. No one is kicking down doors, no one is being dragged off in handcuffs and no one is wearing Jackboots.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 07:57 pm
McGentrix wrote:
The only thing being done is an investigation into the alleged voter fraud that occurred during the 2000 election. They are following up on people that vote by absentee ballot to be sure they are actually alive and who they say they are. That's it. No one is kicking down doors, no one is being dragged off in handcuffs and no one is wearing Jackboots.


Investigation, my ass.

They're scaring older black people out of voting.

Truly, they have no shame.

The Bush administration (Jeb, that is) is doing everything in its power -- and more -- to keep African-Americans in Florida from voting.

There's a group of people somewhere in Tallahassee meeting once a week, huddled around a conference table, drinking bad coffee, trying to figure out what else they can do to keep black people away from the polls.

I've never been much of a tinfoil-hatter, but after the 2000 voter list "felon purge" debacle, I'm convinced there's an organized effort to subvert democracy in the most important electoral college state for Bush, and it has the tacit approval of his campaign and his administration.

How can the citizens of Florida continue to allow this to happen?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 08:16 pm
I would never have believed such blantant acts of treasonous behaviour could be tolerated by fully half of the populace.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 08:20 pm
PDiddie wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
The only thing being done is an investigation into the alleged voter fraud that occurred during the 2000 election. They are following up on people that vote by absentee ballot to be sure they are actually alive and who they say they are. That's it. No one is kicking down doors, no one is being dragged off in handcuffs and no one is wearing Jackboots.


Investigation, my ass.

They're scaring older black people out of voting.

Truly, they have no shame.

The Bush administration (Jeb, that is) is doing everything in its power -- and more -- to keep African-Americans in Florida from voting.

There's a group of people somewhere in Tallahassee meeting once a week, huddled around a conference table, drinking bad coffee, trying to figure out what else they can do to keep black people away from the polls.

I've never been much of a tinfoil-hatter, but after the 2000 voter list "felon purge" debacle, I'm convinced there's an organized effort to subvert democracy in the most important electoral college state for Bush, and it has the tacit approval of his campaign and his administration.

How can the citizens of Florida continue to allow this to happen?


Really? You know all that from a single biased peice of journalism? Amazing.

Of course you believe Bush is evil incarnate, so the fact that you believe this really isn't that amazing I guess.
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Aug, 2004 10:46 pm
Thanks for the articles, Au.
This is some truly unnerving stuff.

And McG, as much as you might disagree, you have to admit, if this is even partially true, its disturbing. Maybe you wouldn't have a problem with someone investigating you for days, but that would freak me out plenty, whether I was innocent or not!

And with all the other things that blacks have gone through in the past (and even the present), I think it would be understandable to see some of them intimidated from going to the polls.
0 Replies
 
 

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