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Elections in the Netherlands (again)

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 10:32 am
I was getting my introduction to this from some articles I found links to on the BBC site. The notion of an actual breakup of Belgium into two countries did cause my head to snap back, I admit.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 12:01 pm
@realjohnboy,
Belgium did not have a separate existence as "Belgium" until 1830. And only in 1839 the Treaty of London finally established Belgian independence.

But even today, there's a province of Limburg in both Belgium and the Netherlands, Luxembourg is the name of a Belgian province, too, we've 'France Flanders' in the North of France, the German Community as the third 'independent' part of Belgium (which is mostly neglected, but it is a political independent entity, a small state within Belgium) ...
morell
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 01:06 am
Doesn't Nimh know that the Socialist( really crypto-Communist) government of Hungary is falling apart financially? Nimh keeps telling us about the beauties of the European Socialist countries, but he doesn't let us know that most of them are falling apart fiscally. Why/ He won't admit that Socialism is a failure.
morell
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 01:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The only country in Europe which is truly financially sound is GERMANY. This, of course, is due to the fact that their residents are the most intelligent, hard working and purposeful people in Europe.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  4  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 04:47 am
@morell,
morell wrote:

Doesn't Nimh know that

He's ba-a-ack... ;-)
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:40 am
@nimh,
Yes. Sad
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:40 am
From businessweek
Quote:
Mark Rutte, whose Liberal Party won the most seats in the Dutch parliament in June 9 elections, said a coalition between his group and Geert Wilders’s anti-immigrant Freedom Party has to be “seriously considered.”
morell
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 04:54 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
How could any country be Anti-Immigrant? Are the Europeans "racists" like the people in Arizona who want to close the borders?
sarek
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2010 02:26 pm
@morell,
morell wrote:

How could any country be Anti-Immigrant? Are the Europeans "racists" like the people in Arizona who want to close the borders?


It saddens me to say that a number of people seem willing to follow the hate filled agenda of this man. Of course I would not deny him his freedom of speech but its people like Geert Wilders that sometimes make me ashamed I am Dutch and I was appalled at the number of votes he received.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 05:08 am
Close to two months after the elections, the Netherlands still isn't very close to having a new government.

Initial "informative" coalition talks between the right-wing liberal VVD and the far-right Freedom Party broke down when the Christian-Democrats, whose participation would be necessary to get a majority, refused to join the talks, and the Freedom Party's Geert Wilders announced that there wasn't much point in talking then.

Those talks were followed by equally unproductive "informative" talks between the VVD, the left-liberal Democrats, the Labour Party and the Green Left. Such a center-left government would have a parliamentary majority, but most of the VVD's voters and many of its officials would be aghast. The VVD, unsurprisingly, soon declared that the talks weren't going anywhere.

That round was followed by strictly secret informative talks between the VVD, the Freedom Party and, this time, the Christian-Democrats too. Talks were led by former Prime Minister (and Christian-Democrat) Ruud Lubbers, and none of the select party leaders taking part leaked a word.

This weekend, they came out with a public announcement, declaring that the talks had offered prospects, and "formative" negotiations could now start to properly bang out a government program and team. Except it still wouldn't be a majority government: the Freedom Party would not officially take part, just support (or "tolerate") it from parliament.

Radio Netherlands reports on the fall out:

Quote:
Negotiations on minority cabinet sparks row

"Deal with PVV splits CDA," bellows the headline on AD’s front page. The populist tabloid reports that CDA politicians across the country are furious about the coalition deal with the far-right Freedom Party and some prominent Christian Democrats are considering resigning from the party. Former minister Bert de Vries tells the paper, "I am deeply disappointed. The PVV is the last party that I'd want to do a deal with".

Several papers speculate that the decision to work with Mr Wilders' anti-Islam party could split the Christian Democrats, and de Volkskrant gleefully writes, "Deal with PVV causes turmoil in CDA". The left-wing paper reports that senior Christian Democrats, local politicians and Muslim members are furious and oppose the deal with the Freedom party.

The paper says Friday evening’s joint declaration whereby the three parties pledged to "accept each other's viewpoints regarding Islam" has infuriated some CDA members. Bert de Vries pops up in de Volkskrant, but this time he is, "deeply, deeply disappointed". The former minister says, "it was an extremely nasty surprise to discover that my party now find it acceptable to work with a party that does not recognize one of the world's major faiths as a religion".

Trouw soberly reports that if the proposed VVD/CDA negotiations on a minority cabinet supported by the Freedom Party go ahead later this week, "the talks will take place under an avalanche of criticism from every corner of The Hague". Trouw focuses on the criticism that negotiation facilitator Ruud Lubbers failed to fulfil his mission of putting together a majority cabinet: GreenLeft leader Femke Halsema tells the paper that Mr Lubbers’ decision is "a matter for serious dispute".

AD reports that left-wing parties believe that Mr Lubbers' decision to recommend negotiations towards a minority cabinet fall outside his remit and the former prime minister will have to explain himself to the lower house on Wednesday. The paper notes that MPs will return from their summer holidays to question Mr Lubbers.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 05:09 am
By the way, this is an awesome interactive map of the election results - by individual voting station!

http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/verkiezingen2010/article2578708.ece
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 05:17 am
Quote:
Wilders' planned Ground Zero speech infuriates CDA

The news that Geert Wilders, leader of the far-right PVV, is planning to give an address at Ground Zero in New York on 9/11 has infuriated many Christian Democrats. De Volkskrant reports that "influential" CDA senator Hans Hillen, in a radio interview on Saturday, said, "Wilders' speech opposing the construction of a mosque near Ground Zero is very risky for the Netherlands".

Negotiations for a minority VVD/CDA cabinet supported by the PVV are currently underway. Negotiations leader Ivo Opstelten estimates that the talks will take three weeks. If they succeed, Mr Wilders will be a de facto member of the Dutch government when he makes his speech at Ground Zero on behalf of the US organisation Stop Islamisation of America.

According to Trouw, Senator Hillen says that although Mr Wilders and the PVV aren't official members of the coalition, "Mr Wilders still carries governmental responsibility and this means that he must always take the interests of the government and the country into consideration".

AD prints Geert Wilders’ tweet in reply to the senator's radio interview, "and to Hans Hillen, I say, get used to it".
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2010 08:23 pm
@nimh,
Is Wilders a complete idiot?
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 04:01 pm
@realjohnboy,
Heh. Should I answer that? ;-)

Actually, no, I dont think he's an idiot .. a blinkered view on Islam marked by obsession, for sure, but mostly he's a provocateur rather than an idiot. A provocateur who knows exactly what he's doing (more so than his predecessor Pim Fortuyn), has a long-term political strategy that seems to be working out pretty well for him personally, and has a keen sense of what will play well with his potential electorate.

Take these past two months, since the elections. Compared to the election results, Wilders is now polling 5% higher - at 20,5% of the vote compared to the 15,5% he actually got. (And keep in mind that, if the pre-elections polling was any indicator, polls will actually underestimate the Wilders vote, due to respondents giving a socially acceptable answer rather than fessing up that they'd vote Wilders.)

His gains seem to come at the expense of pretty much everybody else - in today's Political Barometer Labour is down 2.4%, the Christian-Democrats are down 1.2%, the Socialists down 0.6%, the Democrats down 0.5%. The only other party that's up in the polls compared to the election result is the Party for the Animals. It's not been a good two months for popular trust in the mainstream parties.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Aug, 2010 04:30 pm
@nimh,
Touche. His views strike me as idiotic but I concede his strategy may prove, alas, to be popular.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2012 01:48 pm
Wondering, if nimh will come back today ...

Exit poll of today's elections:
http://i46.tinypic.com/zv4cgp.jpg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Sep, 2012 12:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
http://i50.tinypic.com/jq423a.jpg

So the Netherlands will get a government with a coalition of the right-liberal VVD and the social-democrat PvdA - both getting even more vote than predicted.
The extreme right wing party of Geert Wilders got big losses (down from 24 to 15 parliamentary seats).
0 Replies
 
 

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