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Shaq, Yao and Race

 
 
snood
 
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 06:46 am
This is going to be a little bit of a long post, so let me apologize for that upfront. If you've interacted with me for long on this, or other discussion forums online, then you know that I am a person of color, and that I have strong views about race and racism in the United States. Let me share a couple other things with you. I am an Army brat. My father served nearly 30 years in the Army; he fought in WWII, and Korea. He got out just before they were going to send him to Vietnam - felt as if his number was going to come up. My mother is Filipino - they met during the Japanese invasion of the Phillipines.
That may add some useful backdrop when I tell you that I am sickened by Shaq's comments about Yao. You'd think that this could not come out of the mouth of an intelligent black man. Incidentally, that may be part of the problem - the character of Shaquille O'Neal. I first saw him trying to pick up young female Army recruits when his father was stationed in Ft Sam Houston Texas in 1991, before Shaq went pro. He struck me then as a loudmouthed, stupid, self-centered bully, and he's done nothing since to change that perception. Anyway, we've all witnessed the firestorm that arose out of Lott's recent fiasco, and as a matter of fact, when just about any person of note makes comments that are racially insensitive. We as people of color should not accept Shaq's dismissive half-apology so easily because he's black. We as Americans should not feel comfortable with his profession that this was "just a joke" that the media is "trying to make a race war" out of.
He says "anyone that knows him" should know that he meant no harm - isn't that what Lott said? He says that his backround as an Army brat should clue us in that he's far too hip to racial matters, having lived with Asians and all kinds of ethnicities, to be held to some kind of silly standard about what is and isn't acceptable public dialogue.
But I am offended. I am always offended, as a fairly good basketball forward in my time, when Shaq dunks on someone, then feels he has to enphasize it by launching a stream of (clear to anyone who can barely lipread) expletives all the way back down court. But I am offended by this latest episode, because he is possibly the most famous athlete in America today, and he should not be allowed to so easily dismiss such asinine comments about a member of perhaps the biggest racial population on the planet. And Yao Ming is, for all I've seen, a gentleman who might bring much needed grace, diversity and maturity to my beloved sport. And even if he's not, we all diminish ourselves if someone like this can say something like this because he's a multimillion dollar franchise, and makes great revenue for alot of powerful people. If this had been anyone saying something that sounded slightly derogatory about blacks with Shaq's name attached, we know that it would be jumped on. In fairness, this should not be allowed to pass with so much less difficulty.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 8,443 • Replies: 108
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 07:15 am
Snood- First, let me say that I know practically nothing about sports. I have heard of Shaq, and know nothing about Yao, or what Shaq said about Yao.

Anyhow I think that you have brought up an important point. I thiink "political correctness" has gone much too far. In an effort to afford black people the same courtesies as whites, the pendulum has swung too much in one direction.

So you have the situation where one instance of supposed racist remarks causes a man to lose a job, (by the way, I thought that Lott behaved like a pig) and another is winked at.

IMO a boor is a boor no matter if he is black, white Asian, a movie star, a politician or a plumber. The reality is, unfortunately, that the rich and famous, (no matter what the ethnicity) are permitted by society to get away with behavior that would certainly be frowned upon if the perpetrators were us.

You seem very incensed by Shaq's behavior. There IS something that you can do about it. Write to "Letters to the Editor" of newspapers, and suggest to your friends that they do the same. Write to Shaq's manager, and tell him that you find the man's behavior unacceptable.

A star athlete is a commodity, and the people who "package" him want him to be looked upon favorably by his fans. If he is permitted to get away with loutish behavior, it will just continue. If his fans make a fuss, and show their displeasure, and enough of them do it, his manager will straighten him out, fast!
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 07:49 am
Snood
I love your reasoning and admire your passion. I feel that no person alive in America can escape the effect of racism, no matter how well intentioned, no matter how intelligent or well schooled. It is like a stream eddying around us all our lives. We have to consciously reject it and fight against it while at the same time seeking to keep it from tainting as much as possible the character of the next generations. The unacceptable acts or words of a Shaq, Trent Lott, or J. Q. Public, need to be publicly dissected every time until they no longer surface in our society.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 07:51 am
I'm with ya pretty much, snood. Racism and insensitivity are not one-way streets. I don't much care if the boob uttering the remark is a Rich Black Sports Figure, a Rich White Senator, or a sloppy drunk in a country tavern.

I also figure not much will come of Shaq's idiot remark. The folks most likely to make an issue of this sort of thing are not likely to jump on this. Its inconvenient to topple your own icons, I suppose. That's the real problem ... its less offensive if Shaq does it than if Lott does it. That just ain't right. But, that's the way it is, which ain't right either.

What can you do, other than acknowledge you're human and you are outraged by idiots like this. There won't be many complaints, and there won't be much media mention. The broom-crew will get this securely under the carpet. Now, if it had been somebody like Larry Byrd or Luc Longley, you can bet it would be on Nightline. We've got a ways to go on this, I'm afraid. And this incident does nothing to advance the cause.



timber
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 07:58 am
Excellent points, snood. I have never been a big fan of Shaq, and I am pleased to see it was for the same reasons you list.

Did you catch that score last night?

Shaq had the better stats, but he got blocked on his first 3 shots, and the Rockets beat the Lakers.

Nothing will shut up a professional sports figure faster than losing, so, we can always hope.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:00 am
Great contribution to the discussion, snood.

Let me say first that I am NOT a person of color, despite my handle, my strong postings about matters of race on this and other forums, and perhaps even your predispositions.

I'm a middle-aged white guy who grew up in a completely--not predominantly--white town, went to a high school likewise lacking in diversity, and lived around the corner from people who burned crosses on a regular basis.

The college I went to had about 30% black enrollment; the Alphas did their steps in the student union; and I met and married a native Cuban.

I've seen the looks on peoples' faces when she told them she was born in Cuba; I've seen the double-takes and heard them ask, "Uhh...are you black?"

Think about that one for a moment.

She must not look black, or else they wouldn't ask. But they must be confused about her ethnicity, because, perhaps, of some prior conclusion they've have reached about Cubans. And, more importantly and somewhat sadly, are assembling new data to, perhaps, arrive at a different judgment about her.

Even if I have misread their intentions, it is still the ignorance and insensitivity associated with the asking that is where the bigotry--subtle, shaded, but still there--is hiding.

Which brings me to Shaq and Yao.

I heard the interview on ESPN radio where Shaq said, "Tell Yao Ming I said 'ching chong wah ah so' ". It was at the end of a rather long (for him) give-and-take between him and the hosts; there was a lot of joking prior to that; it was the last thing said, and the hosts laughed right along with him.

I didn't laugh; a couple of guys in the car with me did.

There's no way anyone could turn that inside out and have it be funny. No white player could say of a black player, "Tell him to eat lotsa watermelon before the game," or, "Tell him to take his radio off his shoulder," and not have it become headlines for weeks, just like Trent Lott.

Props to Yao for being classy about it: "I understand Shaquille was just trying to be funny, but many Chinese would not understand that." (not an exact quotation)

Dan Patrick, the ESPN Radio host who did the interview, asked, "Are we (he's speaking of society here) being insensitive in thinking that was funny...or are being overly sensitive in reacting negatively to it?"

The truth lies somewhere in between. The best thing would be not to have to laugh, or overreact, to that sort of humor ever again.

We still have some learning to do before we can enjoy that kinda world.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:38 am
Damn, diddie - you're not black? You must be the coolest white dude in 50 states! Razz
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 08:57 am
I got nicknamed 'PDiddie' some years ago by some black friends.

They called me 'Mac' and several other things that let me know I met with their approval.

The only reason I feel cool, though, is because it's 30 degrees in H-Town this morning.

(Topical: at the game last night there was a poster that said: "Shaq: Who's Yao Daddy?")
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:08 am
Yao's response is very instructive. He was not personally devastated by Shaq's remarks. It seems he is more concerned for his more sensitive countrymen.

I think the remark was in very bad taste, and makes Shaq look bad. But, this running around firing people, and public verbal lynchings is as bad as the thoughtless comments, IMO.

Yao is OK, his country is OK. The only ones that look bad are Shaq and the commentators who laughed.

I bet THEY have heard the news. It wasn't funny.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:15 am
Slightly off topic ... but a bit related ...

A fellow I once worked with was from South Africa. He'd been educated both in Britain and The US, and, oddly enough, was a Canadian Citizen. His diction, pronunciation, and phrasing were purest Oxford English, worthy of a BBC announcer. His name, both first and last, were distinctly Irish. He really enjoyed the startled, uncomfortabnle reaction some folks who knew him previously only from correspondence and telephone conversations evidenced when first meeting him in person. He was a big fella, about 6'6", probably around 300#, with a full head of snow-white hair and a similarly shaded Mark Twain type of mustache. The hair and mustache contrasted strikingly with his so-black-it-was-almost-blue complection.



timber
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 09:30 am
Agreed agreed agreed. (And PDiddie, I thought you were a youngish white woman! I swear! No idea where I got that idea, and I stand corrected. Embarrassed)

Just gotta inject something in terms of comparing Shaq's remarks to Trent Lott's, though -- Trent Lott bothers me more because he is a policy maker, one who had a great deal of influence. His racism could (and has) translate directly to actual concrete situations that put black people at a disadvantage. Shaq is a big doofus. I happen to have some affection for him, but as Sir Charles has said, I really wish sports figures wouldn't be held up as role models. Even Michael Jordan, that paragon, has all this stuff about refs procuring willing ladies for him and other crap coming out.

Does that excuse what Shaq said? Not at all. Should he be held accountable? Definitely. Just something that comes to mind when the situation is compared to the Lott fiasco.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 10:02 am
Timberland:

I've been a radio DJ, spoken in oratorical contests, belonged to Toastmasters, and presently spend my days standing in front of 50+ soldiers instructing. I say that to illustrate that I have what's been described as a good voice, and some have said that my accent is "non-regional".

So I've had a few looks of stifled suprise when someone meets me (6'7" 240+ pound black man) after only hearing me on the phone.
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 03:11 pm
Dang snood, you'd be a load in the lane!
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 11:21 pm
Snood, I agree with those who said that Trent Lott's remarks were far more offensive than Shaq's because of Lott's position as a leader in the government. (I hadn't heard of Shaq's comment-I don't watch sports except for the UCONN women).

He should apologize, of course, but I don't think it should be considered anything more than a stupid mistake, unless he makes comments like that regularly.

Political correctness has done so much damage to our ability to communicate with each other. It has diluted the importance of the truly racist and ugly statements and actions by bringing everything even remotely offensive to the same level. IMO.
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Lash Goth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 11:43 pm
I so agree with Diane's last paragraph.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jan, 2003 11:52 pm
I have serious bones to pick with the anti-PC crowd. I'll tackle this when I'm on DSL.
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Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 02:11 am
snood, thanks for the insight and the thread...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 02:43 am
OK - how to put this?

I think we are all racist - one way or another. I think it is pretty much programmed evolutionarily - to be xenophobic. Doesn't make it right - but we evolved in clans - and I think we still create clans, blood or affective, wherever we go.

This is no longer an effective or a helpful way to be. In fact, it sucks.

So - we hafta use our brains and our sense of justice and our ethics and our experience to combat this.

In my opinion - 'tis no use denying it or beating our breasts about it.

So - this person, whoever he is (I gather he is a sporting hero?) was racist. This is, as Snood said, bad. He needs to be challenged and confronted and reasoned with. Doesn't matter if he is black, yellow, white or brindle. It has to stop.

Nonetheless, while 'tis ethically as bad if he does it as it is when some powerful white guy does it, the effect is different. Political reality. All depends on who is in power. With power comes greater responsibility.

If you have great power, you are expected to behave better - so get on with it.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 04:11 am
I understand the assertion that Lott could cause more damage than the average Joe Schmoe, because of his position of responsibility. Shaq is a very big figure in the minds of alot of Americans. And, although I would not underestimate the power of role model emulation (especially on the young - especially on the minority young, who have few to start with), I'll grant you that maybe Lott could have further reaching damage.

But to say it's "more offensive" if a person with power and influence says it, than if you or I say it, has some holes in it, in my opinion.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:40 am
What did he say? Does he have as much power as Lott?

Political correctness is the new political incorrectness of the conservatives, to my mind - and is, as an epithet, wielded with at least as much monotony and thoughtlessness as ever was claimed by its mirror-twin bete noir.

I cannot comment on what happens in the USA, but here, while the concept of political correctness has had its excesses, it is, nonetheless, I believe, often simply good manners and the thoughtful and effortful countering of generations of thoughtless or mindful abuse and exclusion.

Often, when battles are being fought there is excess - and this has no doubt occurred - however, given the importance of language in defining how we see the world - and how it is even POSSIBLE for us to see the world - I do not see that mindfulness of the power of language is misdirected.

I guess this is in answer to what Dianne said.

I don't think it excuses Shaq - he must have said something pretty awful to upset you all!

Very interesting and worthwhile discussion, Snood.
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