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Shaq, Yao and Race

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:04 pm
One last off-topic contribution (if anyone wants to start a thread on PC, go for it):

Meaning and Origin of 'politically correct'
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Booman
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:05 pm
Lash and Pdiddie,...Amen, It's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil.
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Diane
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:17 pm
Our differences are what have made this forum one of the most interesting on a2k.

I have to disagee with those of you who consider 'political correctness' to be a code or catch phrase of the right. There are so many people who are shy and hesitant to speak up and ask questions because of the chance they will say something that is considered politically incorrect and be shot down before they have a chance to explain themselves.

The need for certain words to be considered inappropriate is very real, but when it becomes oppressive, it does more harm than good. When a movement swings so far in one direction, it becomes contaminated with extraneous rules and rigid ways of thinking. It loses its flexibility, stops growing and stagnates through self imposed, self-righteous morality that has nothing to do with the original purpose.

People just don't fit into slots with labels. Sometimes I agree with Lash and sometimes with edgar. I hope we can all learn from each other--stating our opinions while listening and considering the opinions of others.
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Lash Goth
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:20 pm
Lash: Judging solely from your contributions here, I doubt whether anyone has ever been even slightly successful in telling you what to think.


But, boy, have they tried!

(Is it just me, or am I considered to be strident? Shocked?)

Again, Diane, in agreement with you to the mat on this one.
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Booman
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:27 pm
In flight training ther's a term, "over-correcting". It comes about when your airplane is flying into a wind, that throws it x amount of degres off-course. To get back on course you can't just adjust, x amount of degrees, because the wind is still blowing. Thus you haveto "over-correct", just to stay the course.
...People became so cognizant of insensitive comments, that in trying to correct this, in a lot of cases, they just went to far. Hence, the well intended political correctness, became a term and endeavor of derision.
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 05:57 pm
Politically Correct: A machine of agenda by which issues are shaped to avoid insulting some and challenging any.


timber
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Diane
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:13 pm
Booman, excellent analogy.

Lash, you, strident? Never. LOL
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snood
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:24 pm
Being that it is not generally known as a major part of human nature to be generously tolerant of a vast number of differing views, I think amazement best captures the feeling I have after several days sharing with you here on this forum. You all should be congratulated for at least attempting, and more often than not achieving and maintaining Smile a fresh, and stimulating exchange.
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snood
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:26 pm
Whoo-hoo! High-five me! I lost my "newbie" cherry!!!
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timberlandko
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:32 pm
timberhttp://www.highfivebar.com/images/splash.jpg
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Lash Goth
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:45 pm
snood--

So glad you moved into the neighborhood.

Congrats on the rite of passage. You belong to us, now. :wink:
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 06:54 pm
Very subtle, timber. Razz
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sozobe
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 07:10 pm
Yeah, you're OURS... Twisted Evil

Seriously, I've read your contributions with pleasure, snood (your comments about "what is a man" are what first made me sit up and take notice, but others too) and am really glad you're here.
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snood
 
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Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 11:18 pm
Embarrassed oh, pshhaww.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 11:21 pm
Booman wrote:
Very subtle, timber. Razz


ya don't think that was over the top, do ya? :wink:



timber
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Booman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2003 11:51 pm
Laughing Snood's hand should be out of the cast in a few days.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2003 02:00 pm
If Shaq said that I hate him even more. I've always thought he was a jerk.

Yao's reponse only highlighted the simplicity of his mind. Good for Yao.
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2003 04:00 pm
Hey, Snood---Congratulations!! You are a great addition.
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nimh
 
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Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2003 07:25 pm
That's funny, sometimes everything comes together. I just read an article I'd come upon in the Guardian last week to Anastasia. Formally about affirmative action, the underlying point was about class in America. Decided to post a topic about it here on A2K. While looking up A2K and the Guardian on-line I found this thread here - and another article: "US grapples with its most hated word". The word in Q: "nigger".

Political correctness has, of course, impacted Western Europe greatly, too. I always get a bit on edge when it is again lambasted, and not just because it's such an easy target. It was, after all, born from a justified and overdue push to ban the callous insults of minority groups that had become or remained so organically part of society's ways as a whole, that they symbolised everything about a society in which some were denied the opportunities others had merely because of their colour, origin.

But on the other hand the particular American brand and stridency of political correctness has also always bemused me. So many astounding problems of segregation, poverty, racism, back in the 70s - 80s, when PC emerged, still mostly unparalleled in Western Europe - and then so much passion, so much anger, and eventually so much succesful policing, of speech and behavior, all focused on the mere expression - the outside - of these problems.

It rings a lot of bells for a European bystander - confirming prejudice or incomprehension about American culture. Why has all this passion be channeled in to policing form? When it's the content , if I may put it so B/W, that's clearly ridden with trauma? When society's structures, social, economic, cultural, still damn so much of a whole generation of African-Americans to neglect, discrimination and poverty, why then focus seemingly all the attention on the name, the word, the label that these problems of exclusion come bearing as their mask, when they face us on TV or in pop culture?

Is it - prejudice tells me - the American obsession with the surface, the impression, the image? Is it sublimation, driven by the fear instilled by acknowledging that the problem of racism goes so much deeper than swear words or boorish put downs? An acknowledgement that after all would threaten the belief that, fundamentally, the US are still the country where anyone can become anything he wants, if he tries enough? Is it a Puritan heritage - the tradition of social control over 'properness' in presentation and expression, as the overriding criterium of civilisation? Its near-superstitious respect for the Word, as the creator of our world?

Which cocktail of these elements have revived the Victorian impulse to cleanse ourselves of anything improper in appearance and expression as if, with that, sin would also be banished from the heart?

That's what I always stumble over in PC - this fundamentally hypocritical wishful thinking, as if, by hiding the word, the problem will dissapear? I'm using the phrase "the word" here deliberately because of that article I linked above, about the word "nigger", that just - astounded me - like examples of something you already know always do when they're stark enough.

It clearly shows where PC backfires, against its own causes even. Quote: "In Boston, one local newspaper banned the title of a play due to start next month called No Niggers, No Jews, No Dogs while other publications were considering whether to print its name. The Boston Metro ran the title in its advertising using blanks and asterisks." And: "a local councillor in Baltimore failed in his bid to ban the use of city money to buy reference books - including dictionaries - that contain racial slurs." And the example the article leads with: teacher Shannon Schumacher, who began a project with her students at a school in St Louis, Missouri, to teach them why the word "nigger" is offensive, and gave them a chapter from the book, Nigger: the Strange Career of a Troublesome Word by the black Harvard professor Randall Kennedy as homework. And was disciplined after an uproar of protest.

This is no longer redressing historical injustice by forcing people to conform to more just ways. This is a cover-up. America decides to undo its past by putting an embargo on talking about it. How can you teach your children about racism, if you can't show the example, can't lay it 'naked' on the dissecting table to expose it for what it is?

I believe that so much more could have been achieved if the anti-racists of the eighties and nineties had focused on attacking racist behaviour and structures rather than their mere reflection in the virtual reality of the spoken word. I agree with lash when he writes in this thread: "the revelation is not the problem-- the underlying racism is".

We had this little problem in Holland here last year called Fortuyn - you may have heard about it. He shocked all and sundry by saying out loud what for years was taboo - every night he would appear on his talkshow and say something that'd make you gasp - did he just say that? It won him a staggering 17% of the vote. He wouldn't have won half as much if in the years before, people would have been given a little more trust concerning their intentions or basic benevolence when they'd talked rough, and action would have simply and all the more consistently and clearly been taken against anyone who'd act in ways to harm or discriminate fellow citizens/humans.

There's a bit of rhetoric flourish in the above - I do know of the power labels can have, when perpetuated over generations or in onslaughts of its use in ways intended to alarm, incite - the former Yugoslavia gives some prime examples - and when somebody calls you a name that really hurts you, it may not seem so virtual. But my dumbfoundment [sp?] is real enough - the extent of PC, in combination with a seemingly relatively lacking awareness - or even willingness to hear - of how much deeper and more systemic the problem of racism could be - I don't get this combination.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2003 08:28 pm
Thanks for posting here nimh - I hadn't seen this thread before now.....
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