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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

 
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 01:03 pm
maporsche wrote:
Moishe3rd wrote:

Here's the problem I have with the rejection of a Creator:
Intelligent Design is a sound scientific theory.


No it is not. Scientific Theory requires evidence and extensive testing. Religion requires neither. Intelligent Design is religion (and against the teachings in the Bible I might add, however it does make 21st century Xtians feel better doesn't it)

Quote:

.
The religious myth is a poetry describing the cosmic mystery in metaphors. Modern science is highly developed, but in the past religious myth and cosmology often substituted for science.. Throughout history science busted myth after myth, and the church had to accept this and form new myths. For example, geocentrism was accepted as fact for centuries by the church, and it formsed their cosmology, but after Galileo geocentrism had to relent to the facts.

Religions still hold onto outmoded myths that have been busted by science, and evolution is a case in point.

There is a place for science, objective reality, and a place for religion, subjective experience. The two have no conflict. The problem arises when people take their metaphorical myths literally as if they were literal truths. Religion taken as poetry describing the eternal cosmic mystery has no conflict with science. How can it?

People who demand analytical answers to the cosmic mystery also are frustrated and miss the point. I return to the analogy of music. It can be extensively analyzed scientificly in all respects but one: it can never explain the fulfillment of music. Writing down music is science, and the enjoyment of listening to it is religion. You can fully appreciate music without knowing one wit about the science of it, and you can understand how its made without the abibity to appreciate it, or you can do both. But you can't enjoy the ultimate expression of music by analyzing it scientificly, and you can't analyze its construction without science.
0 Replies
 
Mad Man P
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 07:07 pm
From a logical point of view religions are in fact no more than theories on how everything came to be, the meaning of it all, and in most cases, they also define what is right and wrong.. generally when a person takes a theory and defines it as fact it is considered a delusion.. i know that sounds a bit harsh, but it does seem a logical conclusion...

In my experience most religious people defend their faith by arguing "i can just feel it" or otherwise present some such emotional evidence. Which is common in delusional patients as well. Also all religions contain the word "faith" which basicly implies that there is no evidence of that religions authenticity, for if there were, you wouldn't need "faith". this is also common in delusional patients. Delusions usually also explain the lack of evidence to their authenticity in order to make more sense.

I think we all understand the reasons why religion is so widespread though. It explains many of the things we cannot. it gives us purpose. removes the fear of death in a large degree. gives us a common understanding of right and wrong and a moral code on which to base a society. prevents us from from feeling compleatly alone, by presenting an ever present spirit/god(s) or some such entity. and most importantly gives us equall value in the greater scheem of things and thus removes much rivalry.

Matter of fact it is such a sweat deal that i wish i were capable of believing. however i can't seem to ignore the fact that there is no logical basis for believing, much less for choosing which religion. I might as well begin worshiping the rubber duck in my tub!! or join a cult..

I should also state however that i am not an athiest... as that implies that i've chosen to believe that there is no god.. which is slightly less yet still ilogical.. I am the only sensible thing... an Agnostic

I apologize for any offence.. I'm mearly stating my point of view..
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2005 09:08 pm
Mad Man P wrote:
From a logical point of view religions are in fact no more than theories on how everything came to be, the meaning of it all, and in most cases, they also define what is right and wrong.. generally when a person takes a theory and defines it as fact it is considered a delusion.. i know that sounds a bit harsh, but it does seem a logical conclusion...

In my experience most religious people defend their faith by arguing "i can just feel it" or otherwise present some such emotional evidence. Which is common in delusional patients as well. Also all religions contain the word "faith" which basicly implies that there is no evidence of that religions authenticity, for if there were, you wouldn't need "faith". this is also common in delusional patients. Delusions usually also explain the lack of evidence to their authenticity in order to make more sense.

I think we all understand the reasons why religion is so widespread though. It explains many of the things we cannot. it gives us purpose. removes the fear of death in a large degree. gives us a common understanding of right and wrong and a moral code on which to base a society. prevents us from from feeling compleatly alone, by presenting an ever present spirit/god(s) or some such entity. and most importantly gives us equall value in the greater scheem of things and thus removes much rivalry.

Matter of fact it is such a sweat deal that i wish i were capable of believing. however i can't seem to ignore the fact that there is no logical basis for believing, much less for choosing which religion. I might as well begin worshiping the rubber duck in my tub!! or join a cult..

I should also state however that i am not an athiest... as that implies that i've chosen to believe that there is no god.. which is slightly less yet still ilogical.. I am the only sensible thing... an Agnostic

I apologize for any offence.. I'm mearly stating my point of view..



No offense taken by me! :wink:
0 Replies
 
angel glaze
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Jan, 2005 03:10 pm
You ask many questions but i doubt you'll get the answers you want. Here's my opinion:
personally religion is all about faith, so faith is about belief. When you believe in something it doesn't really matter which religion is right or wrong the one that is yours gives you a group to fit in with. whether your an athiest, islamic, jewish, christian or anything else. most religions are similar anyway they hold the basic concepts of how to live your life to the fullest and how to live your life well. they also hold other important policies such as love and hate, hell and heaven. why condemn other religions when they could be the same as yours but with different names, customs etc. no one can blame you for questioning, it is better to question than to doubt. Really picking a religion is up to which one most corresponds with what you think or believe in, look up a few, and choose for yourself. there are many.... Rolling Eyes
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Rational-Muslim
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 03:47 am
Reply To Frank Apisa
Thanks again Frank Apisa for taking time to reply my posting.

1-In a nutshell you say that religion is nothing but a superstition.
If it is, than it is a superstition that afflicts a huge majority of humans, they are not fools! talking from a purely materialistic (worldly & democratic) point of view isn't that something worth consideration? as they say U can fool some of the people all the time & u can fool all the people for some time but U can't fool all the people (read overwhelming majority) all the time.

2-U ask "how do you know the universe was "created?"
I ask If you find a wristwatch in the middle of a wilderness what would you think? is it rational to believe that it just came into being all by itself, or it has been just been there always? would you call someone irrational & superstitious who says that this wristwatch must have been designed & manufactured by someone? & it must have been dropped by someone passing by?

3-With all due respect I think that those who deny God & religion are victims of a sort of "Inellectual blindness" that does not let them see the truth. ( No personal offence meant), I do believe that everybody has a right to have an opinion, If U still disagree it's OK we can atleast agree to disagree)
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 07:31 am
Rational-Muslim wrote:
Thanks again Frank Apisa for taking time to reply my posting.


No problem...I enjoy these kinds of discussons. I thank you in return for taking time to respond.


Quote:
1-In a nutshell you say that religion is nothing but a superstition.


I never actually said that. I hope you stick around and offer your views in A2K, RM, but if you do, you will find that it makes much more sense to actually quote what a person says...and comment on that.


Quote:
If it is, than it is a superstition that afflicts a huge majority of humans, they are not fools! talking from a purely materialistic (worldly & democratic) point of view isn't that something worth consideration? as they say U can fool some of the people all the time & u can fool all the people for some time but U can't fool all the people (read overwhelming majority) all the time.


Yes, it does "afflict" a HUGE majority of humans...and I agree, they are not fools. It afflicted my mother, my brother, several of my cousins....and it afflicted me for a significant portion of my life. I do not consider any of those people "fools."


Quote:
2-U ask "how do you know the universe was "created?"
I ask If you find a wristwatch in the middle of a wilderness what would you think? is it rational to believe that it just came into being all by itself, or it has been just been there always? would you call someone irrational & superstitious who says that this wristwatch must have been designed & manufactured by someone? & it must have been dropped by someone passing by?


Are you saying that there cannot be anything that was not "created?"

If "YES"...then who created whatever you suppose created it?

If "NO"...what is your point?

With all the respect in the world, RM, your line of reasoning here makes no sense.


Quote:
3-With all due respect I think that those who deny God & religion are victims of a sort of "Inellectual blindness" that does not let them see the truth.


That is your prerogative. I think you are wrong.

In any case, I am an agnostic. I do not know if there is a God...I do not know there are no gods....and I do not see anywhere near enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a guess in either direction.

Apparently you do see enough unambiguous, persuasive evidence upon which to base a guess that there is a God...and you are guessing that way.

That also is your prerogative. But I question whether you truly have enough evidence upon which to base that guess...and I suspect you are basing the guess on superstition.

Quote:
( No personal offence meant)


Absolutely none taken. I hope you see that I am not meaning offense in any of the responses I am offering...I am just sharing my feelings and opinions as forthrightly as possible.


Quote:
I do believe that everybody has a right to have an opinion, If U still disagree it's OK we can atleast agree to disagree)


It is my opinion that everyone has a right to an opinion. :wink:
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Mad Man P
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 07:33 pm
Hi everyone

consider this:

Let god=The maximally perfect being; the being of which no greater can exist; that which cannot exist continguently, the creator of all existence.

1. it is possible that god exists
2. It is not impossible that god exists (from 1)
3. god cannot exist continguently (from definition)
4. so god is either nessisary or impossible (from 3)
5. But god is not impossible (from 2)
6. So god is nessisary
7. So god exists

This proves god exists... however it is paradoxical.

"I know god exists because I exist, and I exist because god exists."

Nothing can be proven to exist outside of oneself. So god exists within your existence and so you are the creator of god.

Everything is subjective. Everyone is equally "wrong" when applying any absolute truthes outside of themselves.

I'm an agnostic by the way... in case i didn't make that clear.. Razz
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raheel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 01:38 pm
about the design argument- why could the watch not have been there forever. why do people always presume it was designed.
you cannot compare the universe to a watch. the universe is an event- the watch is not. the universe began to exist at a certain point- when exactly did the watch begin to exist.
if it was designed then was it when the bits it was made of came into existence...
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 03:11 pm
Rational-Muslim WROTE
Quote:
With all due respect I think that those who deny God & religion are victims of a sort of "Inellectual blindness" that does not let them see the truth.


What about people who accept that there is a God but believe that religions are nothing more than man made fiction.

Consider there are people of at least three religions responding on this thread. Each believes his religion is the true religion. Are they all right ? How can they be?. Are they all wrong? The response if people answered truthfully would be everyone else's but mine. My response would be there is no such thing as a true religion.
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Mad Man P
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 11:03 pm
Hi raheel
You said:
Quote:
about the design argument- why could the watch not have been there forever. why do people always presume it was designed.
you cannot compare the universe to a watch. the universe is an event- the watch is not. the universe began to exist at a certain point- when exactly did the watch begin to exist.
if it was designed then was it when the bits it was made of came into existence...


Good question.. I think that the design question is not about "The event that created the matter that the watch consist of"

It's more about what we don't sense.. like "How can anything be reliable?"

Why is there gravity? is this a rule? how can we be sure? is it reliable that matter attracts matter? How do we know that, just because it has been so thus far, it will continue to be so?

What is the final authority? What decides how matter reacts? Is this authority inteligable?

God is the only answer.. god has created everything.. and god is a rational entity. God is the rule through which all rules exist. and god is reliable..

I'm still sticking to being an Agnostic, however.. even if that means I can't "know" the sun will come up tomarrow.. Free will right? :wink:
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duce
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Jan, 2005 08:35 am
I can not find where Creation/Science are in such a great conflict. Everytime I turn around it seems Science seems to be validating what religious documents have stated for years. With relation to the Bible, go to the Greek. God Made Adom in His image (this does not deny other forms of "mankind" lived before Adom). Call me stupid but the Earth and its lifeforms had a beginning Someway...why could not a Diety/God have been its source?
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prometheus13
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 02:57 pm
I agree with you there. Neither can I understand why religion and science are in constant conflict. They can co-exist, because religion is a way of explaining who started everything, but science helps to explain how we got to this point.
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RoscoePWood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 10:46 pm
All roads lead to God... being "religious" doesn't necessarily make one "spiritual".

Religion = Politics as they both seek to define policy in human affairs through some form of authoritarian rule. (ie 10 commandments, Bill of Rights, etc.)

Ask the spirit within and the answer will come...
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sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 04:48 pm
I see spirituality as being a science. Religion must have been invented by cave men, those who thought there was something "out there" causing bad luck, earthquakes, floods. They thought this something or somebody needed something from humans to make it happy.

God is everywhere, is everything. What more would he/she/it want? God is us.

Sun
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2005 12:31 pm
prometheus13 wrote:
I agree with you there. Neither can I understand why religion and science are in constant conflict. They can co-exist, because religion is a way of explaining who started everything, but science helps to explain how we got to this point.


In the Medieval ages, that's what happened. Most scientific experiments were carried out by monks. Most of what they found supported the Church's stance, until some of the answers started to diverge like the heliocentric and geocentric models of the solar system.

I suspect it has more to do with ignorance and people who don't want to think.

Most of the time it's ignorance and arrogance that causes all this strife. People not trying to think about how something could fit in with what they already know.

However, part of the time it's also how the way the brain is wired. Neurones aren't always used. sometimes, the way your brain is wired makes you less capable of being open-minded about seeing some things.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Feb, 2005 12:05 pm
to any one that reads this. I am using my friends name so don't shoot this name down, or think badly of it. But something that people need to realize is that religion is to diverse to specify that there is one official religion. That there is or isn't a God is a question that people ask them selves every day. religion is something that people make to fill that gap which exist in the mind of all living beings. That gap is filled with questions that seem litterally unanswerable. Science is the religion of those people who wish to try and answer those questions that they can. So for those unanswed questions like how did the earth really form? scinces presents a theory, a theory. which sometimes they don't accept. time is short so, basiclly put, there is no one religion and science can't prove or disprove. The choice is yours.
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BenDover
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2005 10:03 pm
i don't think that there is one true religion because there is truth in most religions but it doesn't really matter what religion is "the one true religion" just as long as you are happy with the religion you support!
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2005 08:09 am
True religion, no such thing. Religion is a crutch man has devised to support those things that were and are a mystery to him. It is also the crutch that divides us. A true religion is one in which each of us does on to others as we would have them do unto us. And worships God in our own way without the made up trappings of religion. I for one do not need an intermediary to stand between me and God.
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BenDover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Mar, 2005 12:04 pm
au1929 wrote:
True religion, no such thing. Religion is a crutch man has devised to support those things that were and are a mystery to him. It is also the crutch that divides us. A true religion is one in which each of us does on to others as we would have them do unto us. And worships God in our own way without the made up trappings of religion. I for one do not need an intermediary to stand between me and God.
Uhhh, doesn't that sound like what Jesus said...the golden rule.
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dauer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Mar, 2005 01:21 pm
au,

what are religious trappings to you?

Do you apply the term intermediary to Judaism or are you just speaking about Christianity?

Do you think there is any importance to community?

Dauer
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