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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 11:34 am
True, Setanta, nominal christianity has blood stained hands. Crusades, inquisitions and pogroms have complemented the institution of slavery in their evil.

The crusades and inquisitions and pogroms, and slavery- and the blessing of weapons of war - have been justified by the twisting of scripture as license for sin.

The point I have been trying to make is that I see a distinct difference in the treatment of slaves under Jewish law and Christian admonition when compared to the cruel treatment of slaves allowed under other authority.

The only explanation I have for slavery in bible lands is that it appears to have been permitted because of man's imperfection and economic circumstances.

In a similar but less outstanding example, divorce and polygamy were permitted (and regulated) by God.

Today, the Christian looks on the passage 'slaves, be obedient to your masters' as good advice for the employee who might be prone to overstay at the water cooler or otherwise cheat his employer out of the production expected for his pay.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 01:21 pm
neologist wrote:
Frank; What on earth are you talking about?


I think you know what I am talking about...but I think you would prefer to avoid dealing with it.

No problem.

I can understand your attitude.

Better to avoid dealing with it...than look like a fool giving the responses available to you.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 03:49 pm
Frank, Do you have him cornered yet? LOL
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 03:54 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
God created Adam and Eve perfect, not intending for divorce. Hence, the quoted passage.

Divorce was permitted for imperfect man.

However,"And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16 For he has hated a divorcing. . ."(Malachi 2:15,16)

Need more?


You said "divorce was not a part of god's plan."

Now you are trying to weasel out of what is written.

Why don't you learn how to debate ethically before continuing.
You are saying there is some inconsistency in my argument. Where you are finding it is a mystery to me. Sin was not a part of God's plan either. Does the existence of sin prove me inconsistent?

If all you want to do is pass gas in my phone booth, why not criticize my posts in the creative writing forum? You can call me a complete jerk for all I care.

In fact, if you think I am a complete jerk for believing the bible is God's word, say so. I can defend myself.

You have (temporarily) stumped my with the slavery time line in Leviticus. But you are dead wrong about my posts on divorce.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 04:19 pm
the logic; slavery in the bible really means (to the modern man) lingering at the water-cooler. Equations like that tend to make one look, well, look pretty weird in one's reasoning ability but could certainly point to a flair with creative writing.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 04:27 pm
Won't bash ya dys. Yer jes rong tha'sall
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 04:40 pm
Whew, such a relief.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 06:09 pm
Frank and Set aren't suggesting you defend anything, real life; they just want you to come to grips with the reality that a biblical case for slavery can and has been made, a circumstance - and just one of many - which nicely points up the contradictions and hypocracy of Christianity. You needn't defend such things at all; indeed, it would be unfair to expect such philosophic gymnastics of someone of your persuasion. On the other hand, your ongoing failure to address the issue speaks volumes.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 10:28 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Frank and Set aren't suggesting you defend anything, real life; they just want you to come to grips with the reality that a biblical case for slavery can and has been made, a circumstance - and just one of many - which nicely points up the contradictions and hypocracy of Christianity. You needn't defend such things at all; indeed, it would be unfair to expect such philosophic gymnastics of someone of your persuasion. On the other hand, your ongoing failure to address the issue speaks volumes.


Timber,

Use is not the same as misuse.

A Biblical case cannot be made supporting the American slave trade. I have nothing to "come to grips with" concerning the slavery issue. I neither owned slaves nor condoned those who did.

The attempt at "guilt by association" to try to claim that any Christian shares responsibility for every act of every other Christian or anything that is even CALLED Christian, is nothing but a cheap broadbrush.

I do not share guilt for the Inquisition, simply because it was engineered by those claiming Christ's name and blessing upon it.

The same goes for the American slave trade.

The "volumes" that are speaking to you are in your own imagination. You are without doubt a legend in your own mind. But your tar and feather tactics don't work here.

Again, your refusal to understand is purposeful, obviously, not accidental. You think you can shame Christians by pointing out the faults of other Christians , or those that call themselves Christian. You are destined to fail.

Why don't you deal squarely with the claims of Christ and Christianity itself instead of flimsy cop-outs like this?

Your insistence that I "fail to address the issue" is a smokescreen, since it is not my issue to address. Let me say it one more time, my agreement is with the abolitionist, not the slave holder.

Perhaps you can understand it another way. Do all drivers of automobiles share collective guilt for the sins of drunk drivers or hit-and-run drivers?

Use is not the same as misuse. Figure it out.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2005 11:54 pm
It may be presumptuous of me, but I've posted this issue in a new thread: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1405056#1405056
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 12:21 am
It seems tedious to have to point this out yet again, but it is apparently necessary. RL is taking the path of the cowardly religionists, saying that he and those who think alike are virtuous and christian, and those who have differed, and especially those who done the reprehensible, are not true christians. This is the cheapest sort of cop out, because it denies the devotion to a religious principle professed and acted upon by millions of christians throughout the ages.

Once again, this thread is entitle: Which Religion is the One True Religion. In such a context, christianity can be denied the right to claim the palm for a host of crimes committed by christians and their antecedants, one of the most glaring of which is the practice of enslavement.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 06:55 am
I like your anology to drunk drivers and hit-and-run drivers, real life; it blows your argument right out of the water. The rule of law prohibits such activities, and provides stiff penalties for those who transgress. The Bible on the other hand, in both Testaments, exhorts its followers, depending on the circumstances in which they find themselves, to be either good slave owners or good slaves; it doesn't prohibit the practice, it legitimizes, institutionalizes and regulates it.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 08:40 am
Setanta wrote:
It seems tedious to have to point this out yet again, but it is apparently necessary. RL is taking the path of the cowardly religionists, saying that he and those who think alike are virtuous and christian, and those who have differed, and especially those who done the reprehensible, are not true christians. This is the cheapest sort of cop out, because it denies the devotion to a religious principle professed and acted upon by millions of christians throughout the ages.

Once again, this thread is entitle: Which Religion is the One True Religion. In such a context, christianity can be denied the right to claim the palm for a host of crimes committed by christians and their antecedants, one of the most glaring of which is the practice of enslavement.
When people calling themselves Christians are not acting as Christians, are they really Christians?

timberlandko wrote:
The Bible on the other hand, in both Testaments, exhorts its followers, depending on the circumstances in which they find themselves, to be either good slave owners or good slaves; it doesn't prohibit the practice, it legitimizes, institutionalizes and regulates it.
Which raises some additional questions about God, about man's condition, and God's intent for mankind.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 10:23 am
Neo, don't be facile. Suppose conservative Republicans object that neo-conservatives do not represent their interests, that they are not true Republicans. In that both subscribe to a core philosophy derived from the same sources, this is mere internecine squabbling. You say those calling themselves christians are not acting like christians? How are those who do not profess christianity to see any such distinction among those with the same core philosophy derived from the sames sources? Why should they care about what are to them niggling distinctions, and why should they take the word of one over the other?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 10:37 am
I think an even better question, Neo....and one that really needs handling....is:

Since you profess to be a Christian....and since your god went out of his way to assure you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with slavery...why do you consider it objectionable?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2005 10:45 am
Quote, "When people calling themselves Christians are not acting as Christians, are they really Christians?" Good question; are you? Is part of a good christian judging oneself? If you don't see the loophole in this example, you'll never understand what "christianity" is all about. By your thesis, the billions of people who claimed/claims to be a christian really are not. That's a whole new perspective of christianity! Have you talked to your christian brothers and sisters lately about your thesis? That all of you may claim to be a christian, but as a matter of fact - are not?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:38 pm
Sorry to be so slow in responding. I know you all just can't wait for my enlightening posts. Laughing

I'm still on my vacation, working my way back from California where my first granddaughter waited until we had left to be born. Very Happy

I fully intend to make a respectful argument for your deliberation. It will help when I have a reliable internet connection and access to my library.

However, I can give a brief answer to the question of what makes a true Christian. It's Jesus' answer actually, made at John 14 34:35: "I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves."

Jesus extended the exhortation of love to include one's neighbors. Read the story of the good Samaritan recorded in the 10th chapter of Luke.

When you see the religious leaders of the world supporting wars and jihads and revolutions, do you find them in accord with Jesus' teaching?

I don't.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:43 pm
Oh, so it's a self-evaluation kind of thing where one "thinks" he's following god's rule "love one another."
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 06:50 pm
If it were as simple as 'if it feels OK, do it,' would that satisfy you?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2005 07:49 pm
I'm not the one that needs "satisfying." You're the one making the claims on what makes a true christian. When I see my siblings the next time, I'm going to tell them they may call themselves christians, but really are not - according to neologist.
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