Which Religion is the One True Religion?

real life wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually....there are people who have never had a baby....and consider themselves experts in having ....babies.

You got a problem with that...deal with it. Question me on it if you choose. But stay away from long list of bullshyt that doesn't apply.

It makes you look like a schnook.
Yes I know quite a few people who have never had children but consider themselves experts at having (and raising ) them.

Yes...me too. Often they are OB/Gyn men.

And they do know a lot about having and birthing children....even though they've never given birth themselves.

Your analogy....as has been pointed out....is absurd.

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If you are lacking the relevant experience, you don't apply for the job, right? So if you have never had the experience, for instance, of God answering your prayer, what do you really know about it?

Ahhhh....and some person who deludes himself into thinking that a natural occurance is actually some god answering a prayer is in a better position to "know what it is all about?"

C'mon. Use your brain. If you are going to argue...at least do it without arguments that are silly.

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Only the view from outside, not inside. You lack a vital perspective, it would seem.

There is the possibility that everyone who ever supposed a prayer was answered by some god....is being totally delusional.

Try to deal with that.

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Okay.

At Leviticus 25:44ff...the Bible asserts that GOD said:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...such slaves
you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their
hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves."

Obviously, neither of us KNOWS whether this actually came from a god...or if it reflects the sensibilities of ancient Hebrews who put those words into the mouth of a god they invented.

Why do you, Neo, think it more likely that GOD....the creator of the universe....the god of everyone....expressed that sentiment....than that it is merely the sentiments of ancient Hebrews put into the mouth of a god they invented?

Were there slaves before this was written?

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thunder_runner32, please try to understand what I'm saying here - if that is a serious question, it appears you are involved in a discussion for which you lack qualifications.

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thunder_runner32 wrote:

Quote:
Okay.

At Leviticus 25:44ff...the Bible asserts that GOD said:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess...such slaves
you may own as chattels, and leave to your sons as their
hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves."

Obviously, neither of us KNOWS whether this actually came from a god...or if it reflects the sensibilities of ancient Hebrews who put those words into the mouth of a god they invented.

Why do you, Neo, think it more likely that GOD....the creator of the universe....the god of everyone....expressed that sentiment....than that it is merely the sentiments of ancient Hebrews put into the mouth of a god they invented?

Were there slaves before this was written?

I do not know when this was written....but what would that have to do with my question?

Do you think it more likely that GOD....the creator of the universe....the god of everyone....expressed that sentiment....than that it is merely the sentiments of ancient Hebrews put into the mouth of a god they invented?

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Preparing answer. Please stand by. Your computers are being monitored and your absence will not be tolerated.

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Hi Frank;
I suppose I could just tell you the plight of slaves during the time of the Hebrews was no different than the WalMart worker in the US today, with one exception: WalMart is not responsible for food, clothing or medical care for its slaves. I could say that. Alright, I did say that; but I won't leave it at that.

Just a point in review (of neologist pontifications): If Adam and Eve had not sinned, there would be no war or crime or sickness or death. There would be no slavery. Folks would not have to work long hours for someone else only to be denied enjoyment of the fruits of their labors. The sad fact of life for the last 6000 or so years: A person is more likely to be born into abject poverty as middle class comfort, to experience sickness as health, to become a victim as to enjoy security.

In Genesis 3:15, Jehovah told of a seed that would bring relief from the ills brought about by the rebellion. The promise made to Abraham was for this seed to be one of his descendants.

The Jews were no different from other nations except for their Abrahamic heritage and their acceptance of the law. They were arrogant. They committed every manner of sin, not only against the law, but also against the most ordinary standards of human mercy. They even, from time to time, sacrificed their children by 'passing them through the fire'. Each time they transgressed, they were eventually punished; they would repent and they would be restored.The entire history of the Jews shows the benefits of obedience and the consequences of sin.

So why were slaves permitted in the first place? It could be the widespread acceptance of the practice among all nations. The Jews had voluntarily accepted servitude in Egypt.The laws governing the treatment of slaves in Israel were much more humane than any experienced by slaves in 19th century US, for example. They were subject to the same work week as the Jews. They could earn money and purchase their freedom. They could become proselytes, etc. True, the freedom from slavery was guaranteed for Jews in the seventh year and not available to non Jews. Non Jews had to pay a redemption price.

There is a certain parallel here regarding Jesus' redemption of Jews, spiritual Jews and gentiles. I'm not able to explain it at this time, however I will do the research. It has to do with the fact that, although the majority of mankind can look forward to life on earth, there are those who will reign with Jesus in heaven.

So, there was slavery in ancient Israel. It existed not because it was part of God's plan but rather it was regulated according to God's mercy. (True, not all Jews reflected the standards they claimed to accept.)

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Not only did you fail to answer the question but comparing slaves to workers at WalMart? I'm speechless....

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Neo....I agree with SN95.

You did not answer the question....

...and comparing slaves, no matter how humanely treated, with workers in the United States is absurd.

I appreciate your efforts...but I would even more appreciate an answer to my question.

The statement in question....

...is it, in your opinion, more likely the words of GOD....or of humans putting their words into the mouth of a god?

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The question was did God make the statement recorded in Leviticus. I thought I made it clear that the answer is yes. Perhaps you didn't see it?

Obviously, you have never worked at WalMart.

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WalMart was a bad example, eh? How about migrant workers? The Jews had laws for the humane treatment of their fellowman. We do also. They weren't and aren't regularly followed. That's not God's fault.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Neo....I agree with SN95.

You did not answer the question....

...and comparing slaves, no matter how humanely treated, with workers in the United States is absurd.

I appreciate your efforts...but I would even more appreciate an answer to my question.

The statement in question....

...is it, in your opinion, more likely the words of GOD....or of humans putting their words into the mouth of a god?

It was largely due to the Christian abolitionist movement in the United States that slavery was ended. Many nations today that tolerate slavery would fit your utopian non-religious mold.

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I still hold to my short answer.

Slavery was a fact of life in the ancient world, though it never has been God's intent for mankind.

In Israel it was permitted and humanely regulated. (at least according to the law).

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real life wrote:

It was largely due to the Christian abolitionist movement in the United States that slavery was ended. Many nations today that tolerate slavery would fit your utopian non-religious mold.

That's pure horseshit . . . slavery ended as a consequence of half-a-million Americans who were never a part of any christian abolitionist movement laying down their lives to preserve the Union. It's bad enough that you retail your religious fairy tales, you needn't try to pervert the historical record in order to congratulate your fairy tale belief set.

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neologist wrote:

I still hold to my short answer.

Slavery was a fact of life in the ancient world, though it never has been God's intent for mankind.

In Israel it was permitted and humanely regulated. (at least according to the law).

Really!

Hummmm!

But the passage I cited....and to which you claim to be responding...was from Leviticus. It was your God speaking to Moses in your Bible.

And for sure you know that your God spoke to Moses while the Hebrews were still in the desert...making their way from slavery in Egypt to the Promised Land.

THEY HAD NO SLAVES WHEN GOD SUPPOSEDLY SPOKE THOSE WORDS.

They didn't even have the proverbial pot to p i s s in.

So this "explanation" holds no water.

And I will ask a third time: Do you think it more likely that the passage is what GOD said...or do you think it more likely that the passage is something ancient Hebrews put into the mouth of a god they invented?

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Setanta wrote:

real life wrote:
It was largely due to the Christian abolitionist movement in the United States that slavery was ended. Many nations today that tolerate slavery would fit your utopian non-religious mold.

That's pure horseshit . . . slavery ended as a consequence of half-a-million Americans who were never a part of any christian abolitionist movement laying down their lives to preserve the Union. It's bad enough that you retail your religious fairy tales, you needn't try to pervert the historical record in order to congratulate your fairy tale belief set.

And for the record..."Christian America"....in the form of slave holders....cited the very passage being discussed as justification of slavery...and did so from the start of slavery in America mid to late 17th century....until the American Civil War.

Christianity and the Bible abetted slavery.

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Setanta wrote:

slavery ended as a consequence of half-a-million Americans who were never a part of any christian abolitionist movement laying down their lives to preserve the Union.

Set is right. The war was not about slavery. It was about states rights.
It should be stated though that a motivating factor in some was the abolition of slavery.
It is truly revisionist history to claim the war was about slavery. I personally have always believed that the Emancipation Proclamation was a weapon of war against the CSA instead of a statement of Belief.

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The one who reads a book about slavery and consider himself separate from these people is a fool!
Man who reads or hears about slaves forgets hes himself a slave of his attachments and desires in the society.It is the same condition as this one of a jew in Egypt.
Verily, rare is a man really free,because hes God realised!
Very Happy

:wink:

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Give it a rest, Jesus, when you start the "Verily" crap, you're way over the top, even by your standards.

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Set is right. The war was not about slavery. It was about states rights.

No, i didn't say that. The proximate cause of the war was slavery. However, you've got it backwards--southern states unlawfully seized federal property after seceding from the Union. They seceded because Lincoln had been elected, Lincoln was the candidate of the Republican Party, then seen as a radical party, in which abolitionists found a home. Single cause explanations of history are always facile, incomplete and naive. What i did say is that half a million Americans gave their lives to perserve the Union--that is why they fought--the end of slavery was a consequence of that sacrifice, not the motivation for it having been made.

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It should be stated though that a motivating factor in some was the abolition of slavery.

A great many Americans who fought in that war were German, Polish and Italian immigrants who came here after the Socialist uprisings in Europe in 1848 were brutally crushed. They fought because of their political principles. It makes as much sense to say that slaves were freed by Socialism as it does to say that they were freed by christianity.

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It is truly revisionist history to claim the war was about slavery.

Nonsense, it was all about slavery. It simply is not accurate to say that christian abolitionists fought the war to free the slaves.

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However instructed a man with harsh words is not better than an animal!

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Setanta wrote:

Give it a rest, Jesus, when you start the "Verily" crap, you're way over the top, even by your standards.

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Set is right. The war was not about slavery. It was about states rights.

No, i didn't say that. The proximate cause of the war was slavery. However, you've got it backwards--southern states unlawfully seized federal property after seceding from the Union. They seceded because Lincoln had been elected, Lincoln was the candidate of the Republican Party, then seen as a radical party, in which abolitionists found a home. Single cause explanations of history are always facile, incomplete and naive. What i did say is that half a million Americans gave their lives to perserve the Union--that is why they fought--the end of slavery was a consequence of that sacrifice, not the motivation for it having been made.

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It should be stated though that a motivating factor in some was the abolition of slavery.

A great many Americans who fought in that war were German, Polish and Italian immigrants who came here after the Socialist uprisings in Europe in 1848 were brutally crushed. They fought because of their political principles. It makes as much sense to say that slaves were freed by Socialism as it does to say that they were freed by christianity.

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It is truly revisionist history to claim the war was about slavery.

Nonsense, it was all about slavery. It simply is not accurate to say that christian abolitionists fought the war to free the slaves.

Abolitionists, motivated by Christian belief, pushed spineless Northern politicians to oppose expansion of slavery in the new states.

Subtract the Christian abolitionist movement from 19th century America and there would have been no civil war. Period. No freed slaves. Period.

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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

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