33
   

Which Religion is the One True Religion?

 
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 11:42 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
sci·ence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.

The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.

Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.


Is this the type of observation you are referring to?

"......to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study" S.J. Gould, evolutionist
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 01:11 pm
Gould is an idiot. He has no patience; most natural selection happens in long periods. This world is 5.5 billion years old, and scientists must rely on fossils and other physical evidence. Gould can stare at one species of life for his whole adult life and not see evolution at work. Evolutionary change works when looking at the macro evolution, then find the micro evolution to evaluate the process.

Some scientists are already finding evolutionary change with the global warming. All we need to do is wait to see what they find to back up their claim.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 04:32 pm
Intrepid wrote:
mesquite,
If you had bothered to read rather than use my words in an attempt to discredit me, you would see that I am taking about the end results as being seen. I NEVER said or agreed with the observation of the process.


I never said that you did agree with observation of the process. I was merely responding to your ridicule of what c.i. posted (and snood's yuk yuk). I thought that using your own words would help with the comprehension.

To expect direct observation of a process with events developed across millenia is the kind of nonsense we get from the literal creationists, which I thought you had excused yourself from being a part of.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 08:54 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Gould is an idiot. He has no patience; most natural selection happens in long periods. This world is 5.5 billion years old, and scientists must rely on fossils and other physical evidence. Gould can stare at one species of life for his whole adult life and not see evolution at work. Evolutionary change works when looking at the macro evolution, then find the micro evolution to evaluate the process.

Some scientists are already finding evolutionary change with the global warming. All we need to do is wait to see what they find to back up their claim.


That is absolutely hilarious. First the conclusion, then look for the evidence.

"Yep, Billy Bob. Global warming is definitely causing some evolutionary change. I wonder if we can find some evidence to back that up?"
Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 09:09 pm
That's the reason why you'll never understand evolution. You fail to acknowledge all the evidence that scientists have been able to provide.
0 Replies
 
Pauligirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 09:28 pm
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
sci·ence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.

The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.

Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.


Is this the type of observation you are referring to?

"......to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study" S.J. Gould, evolutionist


the whole thing....
We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we almost never see the very process we profess to study. We believe that Huxley was right in his warning. The modern theory of evolution does not require gradual change. In fact, the operation of Darwinian processes should yield exactly what we see in the fossil record. It is gradualism we should reject, not Darwinism
Gould, Stephen Jay 1980. "The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary Change" The Panda's Thumb. New York: W. W. Norton & Co., p. 181-182.

P
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 09:44 pm
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
sci·ence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.

The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.

Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.

Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.


Is this the type of observation you are referring to?

"......to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study" S.J. Gould, evolutionist


the whole thing....
We fancy ourselves as the only true students of life's history, yet to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we almost never see the very process we profess to study. We believe that Huxley was right in his warning. The modern theory of evolution does not require gradual change. In fact, the operation of Darwinian processes should yield exactly what we see in the fossil record. It is gradualism we should reject, not Darwinism
Gould, Stephen Jay 1980. "The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary Change" The Panda's Thumb. New York: W. W. Norton & Co., p. 181-182.

P
Hi Pauligirl,

Don't misunderstand the quotations of evolutionists which I have posted.

I'm not implying, here for instance, that Gould didn't believe in evolution or that he felt it was in any way invalid. Far from it. He firmly believed in evolution, despite the lack of evidence of which he spoke.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 09:47 pm
"......to preserve our favored account of evolution by natural selection we view our data as so bad that we never see the very process we profess to study" S.J. Gould, evolutionist

You just like to mislead people by your selective post. Can you be trusted with anything?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2005 09:48 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's the reason why you'll never understand evolution. You fail to acknowledge all the evidence that scientists have been able to provide.


I understand it, alright. Just don't happen to agree with it, CI.
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 04:37 am
Man should get rid of egoism (the feeling that he is the doer). As long as the ego is dominant, the consciousness of the soul will not develop. The egoist cannot recognize the Soul. It is egoism that is at the root of all of man's troubles. It is delusion based on the misconception that the body is real and permanent. The truth is otherwise. One should recognize the evanescence of the body and the senses and control the desires prompted by the sense organs. Desires are insatiable. The pursuit of wealth, power and position can only end in misery. Instead, one should take refuge in God and dedicate all actions to the Divine.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 11:54 pm
Welcome back, SA. It's been over a month. I must say your words have a distinctly narcotic effect on me.

I find my mind wandering. . . Wait! http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/beer.gifThat's better!
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 11:07 am
Quote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Gould is an idiot. He has no patience; most natural selection happens in long periods. This world is 5.5 billion years old, and scientists must rely on fossils and other physical evidence. Gould can stare at one species of life for his whole adult life and not see evolution at work. Evolutionary change works when looking at the macro evolution, then find the micro evolution to evaluate the process.

Some scientists are already finding evolutionary change with the global warming. All we need to do is wait to see what they find to back up their claim.

That is absolutely hilarious. First the conclusion, then look for the evidence.

"Yep, Billy Bob. Global warming is definitely causing some evolutionary change. I wonder if we can find some evidence to back that up?"


Smile

Quote:
That's the reason why you'll never understand evolution. You fail to acknowledge all the evidence that scientists have been able to provide.


I think his problem is not with the evidence (or lack thereof), it has to do with the philosiphy of evolution...make up a guess, and then mold the evidence around it. It should be the other way around.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 11:51 pm
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Quote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Gould is an idiot. He has no patience; most natural selection happens in long periods. This world is 5.5 billion years old, and scientists must rely on fossils and other physical evidence. Gould can stare at one species of life for his whole adult life and not see evolution at work. Evolutionary change works when looking at the macro evolution, then find the micro evolution to evaluate the process.

Some scientists are already finding evolutionary change with the global warming. All we need to do is wait to see what they find to back up their claim.

That is absolutely hilarious. First the conclusion, then look for the evidence.

"Yep, Billy Bob. Global warming is definitely causing some evolutionary change. I wonder if we can find some evidence to back that up?"


Smile

Quote:
That's the reason why you'll never understand evolution. You fail to acknowledge all the evidence that scientists have been able to provide.


I think his problem is not with the evidence (or lack thereof), it has to do with the philosiphy of evolution...make up a guess, and then mold the evidence around it. It should be the other way around.


Well, CI's opinion of SJ Gould is certainly...... unique, since most evolutionists have great respect for him as one of the staunchest advocates of evolution in the past 50 years. Not that they all agree with his particular brand of evolution. But most of them at least don't refer to Gould in a disparaging tone as CI does. I guess you can do that when you're smarter than everyone else.

As far as the global warming thing, I've yet to see CI's explanation of why there is planetary warming occurring on Mars with no human beings up there burning fossil fuels.

Perhaps he will do us the favor of visiting the site for a personal examination and then report back. We can hope.
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 08:41 am
It's not that Gould doesn't have patience, it's that he knows the reality of the situation. Macro-evolution has not been observed, and I personally believe that that constitutes "bad science"
0 Replies
 
RonPrice
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 05:03 am
The Baha'i Faith: A Belated Response
If you are still interested in your question here is a start from a Baha'i in Tasmania: Arrow
_________________
Apologetics is a branch of systematic theology, although some experience it's thrust in religious studies or philosophy of religion courses. Some encounter it on the internet for the first time in a more populist and usually much less academic form. As I see it, apologetics is primarily concerned with the protection of a religious position, the refutation of that position's assailants and, in the larger sense, the exploration of that position in the context of prevailing philosophies and standards in a secular society. Apologetics, to put it slightly differently, is concerned with answering critical inquiries, criticism of a position, in a rational manner. Apologetics is not possible, it seems to me anyway, without a commitment to and a desire to defend a position. For me, the core of my position I could express in one phrase: the Baha'i Revelation. With that said, though, the activity I engage in, namely, apologetics, is a never ending exercise.

The apologetics that concerns me is not so much Christian or secular apologetics which virtually all of the people at this site will be their general field, but Baha'i apologetics. There are many points of comparison and contrast, though, which I won't go into here. Christians will have the opportunity to defend Christianity by the use of apologetics and secular humanists can engage me from their individual positions. And I will in turn defend the Baha'i Faith by the use of apologetics. In the process we will both, hopefully, learn something about our respective Faiths, our religions, which we hold to our hearts dearly. For we all have a religion which I would define as: a set of values, beliefs, attitudes and actions. Atheists, agnostics, nihilists, existentialists-everyone is in the game, so to speak.

At the outset, then, in this my first posting, my intention is simply to make this start, to state what you might call "my apologetics position." This brief statement indicates, in broad outline, where I am coming from in the weeks and months ahead. -Ron Price with thanks to Udo Schaefer, "Baha'i Apologetics?" Baha'i Studies Review, Vol. 10, 2001/2002.
_______________________
I want in this second part of this first posting to finish, as best I can, outlining a basic orientation to Baha'i apologetics. Critical scholarly contributions or criticism raised in public or private discussions like this, an obvious part of apologetics, should not necessarily be equated with hostility. Often questions are perfectly legitimate aspects of a person's search for an answer to an intellectual conundrum. Paul Tillich once expressed the view that apologetics was an "answering theology." (Systematic Theology, U. of Chicago, 1967, Vol.1, p6.) But an etiquette of expression and a high standard of discussion are important if the exercise is not to degenerate into casuistry, picking hairs, finding faults, personality assualts-the kind of things people at internet sites are advised to avoid.

I have always been attracted to the founder of the Baha'i Faith's exhortations in discussion to "speak with words as mild as milk," with "the utmost lenience and forebearance." I am also aware that, in cases of rude or hostile attack, rebuttal with a harsher tone may well be justified. It does not help an apologist to belong to those "watchmen" the prophet Isaiah calls "dumb dogs that cannot bark."(Isaiah, 56:10)

In its essence apologetics is a kind of confrontation, an act of revealing one's true colours, of hoisting the flag, of demonstrating essential characteristics of faith. Dialogue, as Hans Kung puts it, "does not mean self-denial."(quoted by Udo Schaefer, "Baha'i Apologetics," Baha'i Studies Review, Vol.10, 2001/2) Schaefer goes on: "A faith that is opportunistically streamlined, adapting to current trends, thus concealing its real features, features that could provoke rejection in order to be acceptable for dialogue is in danger of losing its identity."

It is almost impossible to carry the torch of truth through a crowd without getting someone's beard singed. In the weeks that follow, my postings will probably wind up singing the beards of some readers and, perhaps, my own in the process. Such are the perils of dialogue, of apologetics. Much of Baha'i apologetics derives from the experience Baha'is have of a fundamental discrepancy between secular thought and the Baha'i revelation on the other. In some ways, the gulf is unbridegeable but, so too, is this the case between the secular and much thought in the Christian revelation. That is why, or at least one of the reasons, I have chosen to make postings at this apologetics site. I have said little about the Baha'i Faith, just set the stage.

Anyway, that's all for now. It's back to the summer winds of Tasmania, about 3 kms from the Bass Straight on the Tamar River. The geography of place is so much simpler than that of the spiritual geography readers at this site are concerned with, although I am aware that whom the gods would destroy they first make simple and simpler and simpler. I look forward to a dialogue with someone. Here in far-off Tasmania--the last stop before Antarctica, if one wants to get there through some other route than off the end of South America--your email will be gratefully received. -Ron Price, Tasmania. Arrow
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 06:05 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
It's not that Gould doesn't have patience, it's that he knows the reality of the situation. Macro-evolution has not been observed, and I personally believe that that constitutes "bad science"


God hasn't been observed, either. Does that constitute bad religion?

The evidence points towards macro-evolution, just as the Bible points towards evidence of God.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 07:07 am
I was going to say welcome to the forum RonPrice. But it's too late for that.

Have you met this fellow?

http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/taz.gif

I've always been impressed with the forbearance of the Baha'is, though not with their scholarship. I shall wait to see how this progresses.
0 Replies
 
RonPrice
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 07:57 am
Forebearance and Scholarship
Here in Tasmania, at the last stop on the way to Antarctica if you take the western Pacific rim route, I meet many an Aussie with immense forebearance, a capacity to endure all sorts of stuff with good humour, but I am rarely impressed with his scholarship. In my experience Baha'is, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, agnostics are all a complex bunch with so much diversity on each of their roads as to gobble/boggle/hobble the mind, the mind in search of intellectual convictions through people and their personalities.

I don't think I would follow any path from nihilism to fundamentalism if I judged that path by the people walking on it. It's ideas we must examine not people. Anyway--a suggested starting point.-Ron Arrow Arrow
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 08:13 am
Oh sure, come along and express a reasonable position succinctly when we've spent so much energy to belittle and humiliate one another . . . sheesh . . .
0 Replies
 
RonPrice
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jan, 2006 08:37 am
Belittling People
My remarks were not belittling people. My point was that you can not judge the nature of a spiritual or intellectual path by those who follow it. We must cease to regard the words and deeds of mortals as a sign of the truth, the reality of religion. If we look to people we will always be disappointed in the end given the fallible nature of the human being. A religion must be judged by its ideas, its writings, its intellectual and spiritual validity not by whether we like the people we meet in the group. That was my point.-Ron :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

700 Inconsistencies in the Bible - Discussion by onevoice
Why do we deliberately fool ourselves? - Discussion by coincidence
Spirituality - Question by Miller
Oneness vs. Trinity - Discussion by Arella Mae
give you chills - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence for Evolution! - Discussion by Bartikus
Evidence of God! - Discussion by Bartikus
One World Order?! - Discussion by Bartikus
God loves us all....!? - Discussion by Bartikus
The Preambles to Our States - Discussion by Charli
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/13/2025 at 07:41:19