When can you be considered a real New Yorker?

When I worked for Florsheim Shoe as a traveling auditor, I didn't have time to do touristy stuff, and promised myself revisiting after retirement. I think I've met most of my own promise.

the beauty of my practice iis that I make my schedule. Whenever I go to DC or NYC or Savannah, I have to take a day off and "do something" besides work.
Usually its done after my business is taken care of

I also made my own schedule, but I worked my butt off which paid off in salary increases and promotion.

I trying to remember the feelings I had when I first saw that cover.

First off, to everyone, I'm not trying to say NY isn't a fine place to call home, if that's where you want to be. It's a good place to visit too. Just as a lot of places are.

It's the sentiment expressed in that new yorker cover that doesn't just say, "NY is a great place", but equally, or even more saying, "the rest of you don't even exist, as far as I'm concerned"

Putting myself back in that time, when first seeing the cover I thought it was amusing. Then I studied the cover, having no personal experience with world beyond my figurative front door at the time. It certainly didn't create any interest in going to, or knowing about any of these places. It evoked more of a feeling of pity for anyone out in that small block of "not NY". I remember thinking "well, at least I live in that tiny strip NJ, that's at least acknowledged.

Today, as an adult, I can see both the humor and ego in it. The person who drew it saw the funny side of people actually believing they were everything, and the arrogance, maybe even ignorance, that they actually did believe that.

I dunno maybe if I hadn't been born and raised in that area, I would think that the cover for instance, was just a bit of silliness. But really, it's how a lot of people there think. Not just that "I love my home town and wouldn't live anywhere else", but "you don't have a full life because obviously we are the only place that has egg creams, brunch or some other "only in NY" thing.

Just watched that video again. Really? Like no one else experiences these things, good or bad?

I'm not gonna argue or disagree with anyone about anything. Your opinions are just that. Your opinions are your opinions. However, I would like to say that most people visiting New York or thinking about NY, think of Manhattan--and not all of Manhattan. Mostly downtown of midtown. Of all my New York friends, relatives, and acquaintances, I'm the only one who lives in Manhattan.

Each of the five boroughs has its own personality. In fact, they have personalities and neighborhoods that are distinct from all others. This may be the result of history, or how recently development took place.

Many neighborhoods in Queens are spread out. One- and two-family homes. There are small apartment buildings. Brooklyn is a very old borough. It has great old neighborhoods and great old buildings. Staten Island is similar to Queens--lots of private residences and two-family homes. The southern part of the Bronx is also quite old. Many of the streets are named after Civil War generals.

I know that many people think that New York apartments are small and cramped. And many of the newer ones are. The older ones, not so much. I have a friend in Jackson Heights (Queens). She has two bedrooms and two bathrooms. My grandparents had an eat-in kitchen, a dining room, a parlor, and three bedrooms. The apartment I lived in before I moved to Manhattan was huge. The living room was 20' by 30'. Two bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a kitchen large enough to seat 16 people.

People who have been in their apartments for a long time (like me) do not pay exorbitant rents. There's a thing called rent stabilization that puts a limit on the amount that rent can be increased. I pay less than half of what other, newer tenants in the same apartment pay. There's also something called SCRIE. This is rent control designed for senior citizens. Our rent is determined by our income. Love dat SCRIE.

There is all kinds of help for people with lower incomes. New, fancy, shmancy apartments and grand old apartments on Park and Fifth Avenue and very pricey. VERY. They're mostly condos and co-ops.

There's something for everybody here.

Today I was at the hospital. Faces and languages from all over the world. I love that.


The next time you're in the Big Apple and you're in the mood for reasonably priced, mouth-wateringly delicious seafood, head for City Island in the Bronx or Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn. It's a schlep, but it's worth it. (Don't tell Joe Nation that I mentioned City Island. He wants to keep it a secret.)

I'm gonna shut up now.

The same perspective in Silicon Valley. We bought our home for $50 grand in the mid-seventies. It was transitioning from rural to city. We're now in the heart of Silicon Valley. We have no rent or mortgage payment. Most homes in our area for sale are over $1.5 million, and that's for a smaller home.
We have totally renovated this house from foundation to roof over the years, and even expanded the living space. Our son will eventually inherit this home.

I can't top FM's first response, and by that definition , virtually everyone living in NYC, regardless of how long they've lived there is a real New Yorker.

I've always said that NYC provides you with the very unique experience of being surrounded by more than 10 million people and never feeling more alone.

New Yorkers are infamous for being rude and aggressive, but I found that once you got past the hard, protective shell, you had a friend that was damned near life long. Contrast that with people in the South who are far more polite and welcoming, but who rarely let you in.

Generalizations of course and everyone will know of exceptions (and some will no doubt still tell me all about them to prove what I just admitted to).

I already have lots of friends so I prefer polite welcoming that will never lead to a meaningful relationship over rude aggression that disguises open books.

But when it comes to flat out cold-blooded rudeness, NYers are the Lollipop League compared to the denizens of Seattle.

Friends of ours moved there about a year ago and when we visited them this Spring, Mrs Friend told us of how startled and frustrated she was by the Seattle Freeze. She has to be one of the most gregarious people I know, and if she has difficulty getting on with folks, then there are different laws of Physics at work in Seattle.

I'd been in Seattle on business numerous times prior to our visit and never experienced the Freeze, but that's probably due to the fact that the people I spent the majority of my time with were going to benefit by my visits and so self-interest forced them to behave differently towards an outsider than they might otherwise have. Our visit in the Spring though, actually revealed, for the first time, the Freeze at work. People with whom you are speaking to at a party will simply walk away from you when you're in mid-sentence, or totally ignore your contributions to a group conversation, and talk over you.

To short-stop the anticipated "There's no Seattle Freeze, you just bored the hell of of these people!" I will add that this happened less to me that it did to my friends and wife, not because of my sterling wit and conversational skills, but because after our friend told us of the dynamic, I decided to play more of an observer than participant role in situations where we were the few among many locals.

Whatever it is, I saw it in action, and according to our friend, it's something that is regularly referred to in the local papers. Maybe it's the near constant gloom that puts these people on the existential edge and saying the hell with everyone else, but it was pretty damned surprising, and very notable. I also should add that it was nothing like NY rude. No one was aggressively rude or directly insulting. They all smiled and acted friendly as hell for the first five minutes that they actually remained engaged with someone.

Is it possible that there's something in the water there that causes autism even in adults who have fully developed socially elsewhere?

That's understandable; they rarely get sunshine. That sets the mood for the majority. However, I used to travel to Seattle often on business (auditing stores for Florsheim Shoes), and used to go out with the store managers to night clubs. It's a wonder my lungs still functions.

Ive found that a New Yok stater rom the "Northern Kingdom" to be a friend for life. dwellers from "The City" Ive found to be mostly surficial who are always on stage.

I do admit that I like my space and everyone in NY was a "close talker" to me.

I till love to go up on the train on Non-business trips with Mrs F. We are lik 2 kids ith all the museums and shows.
We usually stay a long eekend in NY

When we go to DC will stay for a week. Its always new. AND e live close enough that its a nice drive and the hotels have great parking..

Having lived in New Orleans Ive learned how to keep on alert without showing it. New Orleans makes NY and DC look like Sesame STreet.

Love all three places for their unique attractions and ambiance. My last visit was to NYC, and I did the normal touristy stuff like going up on the Empire State, and taking the VIP double-decker bus tour, walking Wall Street and Broadway, and having a meal at some great restaurants. On one of my visits to Washington DC, I was invited by then congressman Norm Mineta to have lunch with him. My sister, unfortunately, left the day of the invitation.

With all due respect, you're nuts.

As far as sheer energy goes there's no place in the US like NYC and few places in the world.

DC has energy and so does Chicago (it's a function of the power residing in the places) but while N.O. is a lovely city and a very nice place to visit, comparing it to NY is like comparing a kitten to a panther.

Listened to an interesting feature on monocle.com last night about why people react to New York / the idea of New York the way they do.

<trying to find podcast>

The theory was that some of it has to do with the history of film-making there. People simply know New York in a way they don't know other parts of the world outside of their home communities.

___

edit

the podcast

http://monocle.com/radio/shows/the-urbanist/225/




__

again - my pitch for monocle.com

if you can pick up any of their programming on the radio, give it a try

(it always makes me think of Merry Andrew and his wonderful wide range of interests and experiences when I listen)

Maybe I was not clear but I was talking per capita CRIME. Wed been busted in at our home in the Garden district twice in NO, and I was considered a target on another occasion.
When some friends would visit I always was making sure that no one wore anything flashy in NO.
New York, pwer capita-Im probably one of the "lower middle class" , DC has great cops and has a much safer feeling

Or I misread what you wrote, my apologies. I never lived in New Orleans or Washington, but when I visited the former I didn't feel more at peril than I ever did in DC or NY. The stats are the stats though and it doesn't surprise me if NO has a higher crime rate than either of the other cities.

Feeling menaced by criminals tends to be situational and often depends on what part of a city you're in. I lived in NY and have visited the other two places more than I can remember and yet the only time I was mugged (or more accurately the only time I almost got mugged) was when I was in Amsterdam, a place I've only visited only once in 61 years of a risk laden life,and where I was in the company of about 20 or 25 other adults (most of whom were males).

It was the classic predator's gambit. The pack managed to separate five of us from the rest of the herd and then moved in for the kill. Thankfully, in retrospect, a colleague and I were further separated from the other three (completely blotto Danes who had no clue what was going on and who were responsible for us being separated from the main group) by outliers of the pack who literally jumped my companion. We were able to fight them off, mainly with loud shouting and a punch or two, but as a result came late to the darkened public square where the Danes stood in the middle of an advancing circle of Moluccan thugs.

I took one look and the developing scene, shouted at the top of my lungs "It's every man for himself!" and took off for the lighted main avenue and crowds of people, with my colleague right behind me. We heard some shouting, but before we could even start to find a Dutch cop, the Danes joined us on the well lit avenue. Now these guys were hardly obvious descendants of Viking forefathers and so the thought of them fighting their way to safety was amazing. It turned out it also didn't happen. Apparently my shouted disclaimer of any responsibility for their well being startled the muggers enough and woke the Danes out of their drunken stupors enough, that they were able to scoot out of there and join us; safe and sound.

The incident would have been over if the pint sized leader of the group who, I came to find out, had enticed the Danes to follow him with promises of a private show starring his sister, didn't also follow us into the street. Fortunately he was unaccompanied by any of his fellow Molucaan droogs, but he had the brass to try and get the Danes to come back with him, repeatedly assuring them that he "loved them man!" and loudly accusing me of unfairly coming between him and his new Danish friends. Shouting, cursing and a few pushes followed and it might have turned violent, if a Dutch cop, attracted by our loud voices, didn't come to investigate the hubbub, and in so doing sent "Shorty" (our subsequent name for him when describing the incident to the others in our group) skittering back into the shadows.

Although the attempted mugging took place in a small darkened square only a block from the main drag, the harrowing adventure originated in a part of the Amsterdam that was well lit, heavily trafficked by pedestrians and police, and looked like it belonged in Epcot Center at Disney World. Outside of Amsterdam, and on the mean streets of American cities, I must have led a lucky and charmed life; never experiencing the sort of menace we encountered that night, but the thugs of NY, DC or NO can't be any worse than that gang of relatively small, but wiry and cruel Molucaans who loved Danish businessmen touring their historic city so much that one was prepared to introduce them to his sister. (She undoubtedly was a cherry which had to be why the Danes, who denied being at least seven sheets to the wind, ignored their claimed misgivings and followed the fast talking Shorty in the dark and narrow alley that led to the square and where my companion was jumped)

I've never given much thought to crime statistics--if you are confronted by a mugger, the probability of such an event has reached one, and the statistical probability has become meaningless. FM's comments about NO are pertinent because he was living there. (A friend long lived in Metairie, and advised us that it wasn't worth "going into town" as they say there, just to hang out. "Don't go unless you've got a good reason" she used to say.)

As for New York, something my friends and i were told in 1968 has always stuck with me. We were waiting for friends on Times Square, not a place you'd have much reason to go otherwise, and went into a shop to look at the Nehru jackets (remember those?). A guy comes in, talking a mile a minute, whistling (poorly) like a bird, acting goofy, and obviously looking around to see who was paying attention to him. He apparently didn't get the response he hoped for and left. The guy behind the counter sighed and said, to no one in particular: "I knew that guy years ago before he decided to become a professional street weirdo. He's from Maryland, he's not a native of this city. Guys like that give those of us who are a bad name we don't deserve." Then he looked over at one of my friends and said: "You see guys like that, they're not New Yorkers, they don't represent us. It's worst on Times Square, where probably nine out of ten people you run into aren't native New Yorkers. The sad thing is that jokers like him give us a rep." That stuck with me because i thought then that this was probably true of just about any major city--in the tourist areas, almost nobody is a native, and the ordinary people who live in the neighborhoods and go about their daily lives in an ordinary fashion probably avoid such places like the plague.

That's probably also true like at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco.

Although I had SF friends who went to what if I remember was a weekly outdoor food market situated near the wharf, don't remember the exact name. The wharf building/s had some good stuff too. Who bought the great cheeses, etc., might have varied re time of year.

There are a myriad of different New York experiences to be had as many people have pointed out on here already. That being said, many of my friends moved out there and shared a small flat with about 6 people so I guess that's one way you know you're living a New York lifestyle.

We have farmers markets every weekend not far from where we live. We found their prices to be rather high compared to local super markets, but they seem to do good business. Many are buying and carrying around many plastic bags full of produce.

What I remember of the one in the embarcadero area was the olive oil selection. I didn't buy, was a visitor that day, plus I have been routinely impecunious. That might have been the same day that Pacco caused trouble in a Berkeley area friend's house. (No, that was another time; that day I would have taken the Pacc to the city. There was even a later photo of us taken by her, ggate bridge way in the background).

On the other hand, I was a fan of Oakville Grocery - if I really wanted to get a grasp of good olive oil or olives or cheese or sandwiches or wine.