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Why do so many people reject creation in favor of evolution, despite the complexity of dna?

 
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 07:44 pm
@Leadfoot,
Yes Leadfoot you are correct, when our ancestors came up with creation stories they were speaking from a metaphorical perspective, obviously not from a scientific perspective. Some of their metaphorical narratives on creation were amazing and clever. Like the NZ Maori people explaining earth quakes. The story talks about the Sky Father and Earth Mother having various children like the guardian of the forest, the guardian of the sea, the guardian of the air etc. etc. The guardian of the forest was the only one of his siblings who could push their parents apart to allow light into the world by lying on his back and using his feet. But they had a brother who was not borned yet and was still inside their Mother. So when there are earthquakes, it is this unborn child that still moves inside Mother Earth. Its obviously just a metaphorical interpretation, but it is a very clever one.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:06 pm
@Amoh5,
"Clever and metaphorical perspective" is an opinion based on current scientific knowledge, because it would otherwise by an obvious falsehood. That term can be applied to comic books like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck; they sort of reflect human traits.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You speak about being so-called clever, even than our ancestors but what's so funny about it all is that, you wouldn't be here or exist if it wasn't for our ancestors, you seem to have no human grace whatsoever...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:17 pm
@Amoh5,
I've never claimed to be clever. Just providing an opinion that rejects hokus pokus personalities.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So the teaching of Chistian(Lord Jesus)human morality of compassion and decency must be hokus pokus to you as well?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:28 pm
@Amoh5,
If there never was a "Jesus," everything else is 'hokus pokus.
'
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:29 pm
@Amoh5,
How successful was Jesus concerning "human morality?" Do you know anything about the teachings of Buddha?
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If you can't see any moral value in Christian literature I think that's really sad? Lord Jesus speaks about people helping people in a family way which is critical for human survival. However, speaking about Buddah there some good moral aspects treating other people with respect. But the only aspect of Buddhism I don't agree with is having some sort of family sense towards other species. I think each specie should only be obligated to their own kind, in a family context that is...
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:40 pm
@Amoh5,
Amoh5 wrote:
but when a person like you says to me, there are no moral lessons or characteristics from Christianity(that is Lord Jesus) I think you're more in denial than what creationists are.

I didn't say that there are no moral lessons in Christianity. You implied that there are moral lessons in Christianity which are uniquely given by Jesus and not something which we can derive on our own naturally. I asked what exactly those particular lessons are. And you still haven't answered that question.

Amoh5 wrote:
No human being can teach themselves that, thats total fantasy. You are either taught that by your parents or by another source.

We learn from our parents and from our own compassion and empathy for others. Compassion and Empathy do not come from Religion, they are natural.

And bear in mind that most atheists are very kind, compassionate and moral people, yet they are not religious. Where do you suppose those behaviors come from if they do not come from Religion (and they clearly don't)? And are you saying that if you were not religious you wouldn't know better than to not kill people or steal from them? Does it really take "Lord Jesus" to explain something so obvious to you? I bet it doesn't. I bet that those things are obvious to you as well, they just happen to coincide with what someone told you Jesus said, and you choose to give him credit. And that's exactly why I asked you what unique moral lessons you think Christianity/Jesus provides that isn't obvious to most rational people.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 08:56 pm
@rosborne979,
Like I said we are not capable of independently teaching ourselves human moral values or sometimes even trying to maintain them. We all have good days and bad days, so we do need something to remind us, whether it be our parents or whatever. Lord Jesus speaks about having a family love and respect for other people which is no big secret if you live in a Christian country. I would not have realised the value of family or human life if I hadn't become a Christian. I'm only human I have bad days and stress out etc. etc. I'm not superman or a magician. I too need reminding on how I should be thinking and behaving...
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 09:10 pm
@Setanta,
For the record, this is the question and answer you referenced:
Quote:

Leadfoot wrote:
"As far as I can tell, Amoh's leans toward the former but neither view reflects what I think is unique to the one in the bible."

Roswell then asked:
What is it that you see as unique to the one in the bible?

Leadfoot answered:
It is unique in that when clearly seen, it resolves the dichotomy between the bland 'family values' view and the 'psychotically mad' view of bible morality. I won't pretend to be able to describe that in an A2k post.
As you can see, I plainly said that it would be impracticle to answer that in a single a2k post, so there was no 'dodge' on my part. But to expand on it a little, what I see as unique to the bible's system of morality was its consistency, lack of contradiction, and applicability in every aspect of life. It was learned over a period of 60+ years, so it is literally the story of my life. I'd think you'd understand that it isn't something I could print on a bumper sticker. That's as honest an answer as I can give.

But hey, if you want details, feel free to ask.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2016 09:37 pm
@Leadfoot,
Saying that you're not mentally equipped to resolve a conundrm which you created is meaningless. Your reply answered nothing, unless you really are so loony as to suggest that the moral system in the bible combines "family values" and psychosis. More to the point, you evaded cmopletely answering what is unique about the moral system offered in the bible. You're off in the woods somewhere, trippin' on mushrooms as far as i can tell. You did not answer Roswell's question, and you did attempt to answer a question that wan't asked, to divert the course of the discussion. Based on my 60+ years experience of the religious, that's probably because you can't answer because there is nothing unique about the moral system offered in the bible. You just don't want to admit it.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 12:59 am
@Leadfoot,
I became a Christian because of the moral principals of Lord Jesus, not because of the metaphorical fairy tales in the bible, I am not that naive or deluded. I know life is just a lot of blood, sweat and tears but I also know that life is about having a positive mind. I have bad stressful days like everyone else which can drive me stark raving mad at times. But I do now have a Christian(Lord Jesus) conscience in the back of my mind to remind me how I should behave, rather than be controlled by frustration and rage. And no, I am not a typical stereotype Christian where they believe in any literature that has, "And God said so." As for me, it either has to make relative sense, Christian moral sense or scientific sense. Not because it has the word "God" in it. Any nutcase can make something up, and then say "God told me." When I have a moral query I turn to Christianity(Lord Jesus) When I have a physics query I turn to Science...
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 04:55 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Your reply answered nothing, unless you really are so loony as to suggest that the moral system in the bible combines "family values" and psychosis.
I'll clarify in a moment but yes, I am that 'loony'.

I wouldn't say 'combine' family values and 'psychosis' but it resolves these two disparate views. It explains why one person can see it as no more than common sense inborn or evolved values (be nice to other people) and another can see it as virulent and dangerous. There is no particular type of person who thinks of them in either way. For example, an atheist might take either side. Same goes for a religious person.

So I'm saying both views are wrong and the bible shows how and why they are. That a book could be seen as all three of these things is pretty unique.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 04:59 am
@Leadfoot,
If you acknowledged that "that's how i see it," you would be in a position to argue for your point of view. But you are stating as a categorical truth that this is the moral system of the bible, even as you say that one person may see it differently than another. You're all over the road, and driving like a drunk.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 05:13 am
@Amoh5,
Quote:
I have bad stressful days like everyone else which can drive me stark raving mad at times. But I do now have a Christian(Lord Jesus) conscience in the back of my mind to remind me how I should behave, rather than be controlled by frustration and rage
Jesus' words suggest that we should no more need reminding but rather it should be our very nature to behave appropriately. He spoke often of being 'born again' in order to have that nature. What do you make of that?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 05:24 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
If you acknowledged that "that's how i see it," you would be in a position to argue for your point of view. But you are stating as a categorical truth that this is the moral system of the bible, even as you say that one person may see it differently than another. You're all over the road, and driving like a drunk.
I'm sure I have said before that I speak only for myself but I'll say it again if necessary. I do think that anyone who follows the moral system of the bible will find themselves very alone at times. If you are not willing to walk that path it is probably better not to even start. 'Be ye hot or cold' the book says.
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 06:05 am
@Leadfoot,
To me it is a metaphorical passage meaning to renew ones psyche or moral outlook(or born again with new ideals) on things leaving the old moral way of looking at things. When I gave my allegiance to God and Lord Jesus, I now have a different moral conscience to what I use to have. I was a very negative and hateful person before that...
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 10:49 am
@Amoh5,
Ah, just a metaphor then.
You bring new meaning to the term 'Christian Apologist'.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Feb, 2016 07:29 pm
@Leadfoot,
I do see myself different from the stereotype idea of a Christian. I don't like reading anything else in the bible except the moral words of Lord Jesus, I don't go around trying to change people of their religion or perception. But I will defend my own Christian perception if challenged. Like I always say, If atheism, theism, buddhism or whatever works for you and makes you a better human being then that's awesome, afterall that is the objective. But I do find all these ID and prophectic so-called evangelists rather weird. But the only tv evangelist that I found somewhat entertaining is Joel Osteen, he is a smiley funny character and he doesn't do much of the condemnation and prophetic routine which I find very boring...
0 Replies
 
 

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